Against Authenticity and Free Movement
I am going to swim against the tide and I imagine many hands rose in opposition to what I am going to say in this buzz. How authentic should we be? I have some evidence that authenticity may be harmful to our social health. I even dare to add even to restriction of our movement can be rewarding. This seems to be against the prevailing logic. I am not saying this to draw attention; more to warn against authenticity and its deadly consequences, at least in certain situations.
Let me explain why. Antibiotics work effectively against free floating bacteria. Bacteria responded cleverly. They form biofilms like the plaques attacking our teeth. Why did bacteria sacrifice their freedom of floating and accepted to join together to form a biofilm?
A biofilm Example
I seriously invite you to watch this wonderful video on how bacteria form these biofilms and see collaboration at its best. These biofilms are common in our bodies, in bridges and whenever we have solid-liquid interfaces..
Biofilms have different shape in response to the substrate bacteria attacks and the environment. What is truly amazing is the way bacteria make the biofilms so that antibiotics fail to kill the forming bacteria. It is survival again those bacteria lose their freedom of movement and authenticity to survive. Bacteria use cell-to-cell signaling to build a attract bacteria to a host side. Once the bacteria reach a critical number they stick through special thread-like material that they form to adhere on the host surface.
What is truly amazing the understanding of bacteria to the benefits of forming a biofilm. The community of bacteria forming a biofilm is more stress resistant than any individual bacterium. This film is more resistant to ultraviolet light and is far more resistant to antibiotics.
The weak individual bacterium emerges as very strong in a community. Is weakness then a great motivator for building communities and solid cooperation? Biofilms say this is true.
Ali Anani, PhD
A.C. Matin, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Stanford University said that when compared to free-floating bacteria, those bacteria growing as a biofilm can be up to 1,500 times more resistant to antibiotics and other biological and chemical agents. Is freedom becoming sometimes a blocker to building our human communities?
We love to move freely, but not on the expense of our survival and abilities to build strong human communities.
""
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التعليقات
Sarah John
منذ 3 سنوات #109
Sarah John
منذ 3 سنوات #108
Ali Anani
منذ 4 سنوات #107
#134 Thank you Lyon Brave and @Victor Alston for your appreciation
Lyon Brave
منذ 4 سنوات #106
Joyce 🐝 Bowen Brand Ambassador @ beBee
منذ 6 سنوات #105
Thank you, Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #104
I am genuinely proud to have you involved Joyce \ud83d\udc1d Bowen Brand Ambassador @ beBee. Your words mean a lot to me.
Joyce 🐝 Bowen Brand Ambassador @ beBee
منذ 6 سنوات #103
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #102
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #101
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #100
I really like that idea of Artistes having to walk along a balance beam between what they wanted to produce and what they were paid to produce ! This still happens today ! Not just with artists but also architects, landscapers, designers, actors, dancers .....
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #99
I wish I was retired now but will have to be patient a little longer till I can enjoy having time to read more of your addictive posts.
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #98
Between 1 and 3% of us is bacteria. But maybe the question should be how virulent that 1 and 3% is ?
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #97
Yes to have true freedom self discipline is needed otherwise we may become slaves to passivity and apathy.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #96
I am not joking when I say you are on "high heels" Louise Smith because I enjoyed this comment the most among all your comments. I loved the maturity in your writing "It's like any research. After analysing the data, the results may not fully represent the starting hypothesis so there is a need to expand the general starting hypothesis and finely hone it into a number of more specific ones". I am mentioning it in my next buzz. I wonder how you ssass my buzz of today https://www.bebee.com/producer/@ali-anani/quit-while-at-the-top#c8
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #95
So Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee you are a natural facilitator of a unique beeofilm !
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #94
"I honestly wish to read more contributions before proposing the simple rules that lead to the formation of "biofilm of beliefs". " But by proposing it in this way, you leave nooks and crannies for us, the readers, to ponder on and come up with ideas to fill these spaces. If there are lots of nooks and crannies, there are lots of spaces for many of us to contribute. The more who contribute, the more interesting the discussion can be. Similarly, simple rules can become more complex with expansion from others' ideas. Different perspectives can emerge too and be seriously considered, accepted or modified. It's like any research. After analysing the data, the results may not fully represent the starting hypothesis so there is a need to expand the general starting hypothesis and finely hone it into a number of more specific ones. That is the main reason I like your posts so much Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee ! You give us the freedom to be authentic in an acceptable way in an appropriate forum. My main problem as I have stated previously is that lots of intelligent bees do too, so it takes a while to digest the schizogony of bacteria - agreeable and not so agreeable!
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #93
"How do we have accountability for a relationship which is symbiotic when that accountability is somewhere other than our own being?" I think when a person is chronically ill with little benefit from modern health practices and therapies, this is something that can trouble them deeply.
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #92
There are 2 sides on each coin. 2 opposites. We need to understand both to appreciate the positive solution. On Australian coins, one side has the head of Queen Elizabeth and the other side have 1 each of various different Australian native animals. Aussies like a bet both ways !
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #91
Attack & Defence -Yes just like war
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #90
What is the meaning " male consciousness " ? Human consciousness ?
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #89
Tricia Mitchell- you are as you say "I'm a Work In Progress". Enjoy the journey my friend.
Louise Smith
منذ 6 سنوات #88
Yes sand and clay are good comparisons. When I read authenticity in this post, I think of it as "Individualism at any cost" which ends up like CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit's anarchy. The situation is Syria comes first to my mind. 110 comments !
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #87
This is a great response Sara Jacobovici brought a great paradox to our attention.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #86
#108 #110 Thank you Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee for bringing my attention to the most intriguing paradox coming from the comments of @Tricia Mitchell. You word it in a question form Dr. Ali, "Is freedom confining?" My in the moment response would be that choice determines the boundaries of confinement. It is the fact that we have the freedom to choose in circumstances that restrict our freedom and in this way confines us, that is where the paradox comes from. The internal process of our individual freedom to choose is boundless, it is the external response to that choice that will then determine the degree of confinement. Beside the political examples that can be raised, the ones that come to my mind are from the time when artists depended on patrons to produce their work. Michelangelo and Mozart were both very dependent on their patrons. And so their choices were restricted. Each, however, found a way to create their art form freely within their confinements. Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this very interesting discussion.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #85
Thank you again dear Tricia Mitchell. am too moved to respond in hurry. I shall do later today.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #84
reading Part 1 of your comment and the comment you made earlier today I must sat that I am baffled by your knowledge, sensitivity and broad understanding. SPot on comment that enriches the buzz and gives it a practical dimension. I am much obliged to you. Your paradox about freedom that you mentioned earlier today and to which I drew the attention to "The Mother of Paradoxes" and I mean Sara Jacobovici is beautifully highlighted in your comment. Million thanks
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #83
Thank you so much dear Tricia Mitchell- please tale care of this paradox that Tricia mentioned in her superb comment ""Is freedom confining?"
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #82
Thank you Phil Friedman and I appreciate your comment greatly. Differences should be our bridges to move forward. THis is only possible if we respect differences as triggers for better understandings. I am sorry for my late response as I noticed it accidentally.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #81
Yes, I agree with you as I highlighted in my preceding response.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #80
Thank you Tricia Mitchell for writing a great comment, which I sadly only noticed today. You wrote "If we set aside difference and, perhaps, move towards a more conscious way of living, then survival and strong human communities is possible". To this I agree fully and it is time to realize that the benefits of aligning together far exceed the benefits of being self-centered.
Phil Friedman
منذ 6 سنوات #79
Thank you, Ali, for being a true scholar and gentleman on this. I hope that this interchange can perform as an example of what it is to disagree with civility and respect for one another. My best to you.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #78
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #77
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #76
In respect of your comment I followed you Tricia Mitchell and I welcome you here. I am leaving the door open for all contradicting comments. I am saying that authenticity is a blessing as long as it doesn't overwhelm the interests of a community. When authenticity obstructs community work then it can be harmful. I shall write another buzz to verify more on your important comment. Mind you I understand this is a contrversial issue and I am open-minded to al opposing views.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #75
I am glad you did Deb\ud83d\udc1d Lange, Brand Ambassador @beBee
Phil Friedman
منذ 6 سنوات #74
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #73
Leckey Harrison- I respect your point of view. You have a valid point. However; I wonder if being very authenticity-centered would allow for cooperation. Hydrogen and oxygen lose their identity when they combine to form water. My question is if interdependence is not dependent inversely dependent on the "sticking" to authenticity! You make me think.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #72
Thank you dear Phil Friedman for your understanding and good words.I enjoy extracts that reflect the main theme of a buzz as your comment did.
Phil Friedman
منذ 6 سنوات #71
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #70
Very true Deb\ud83d\udc1d Lange, Brand Ambassador @beBee. However; people may make simple typos and somebody may be willing to make an issue out of it. I am sure you too shared my experiences in somebody writing an innocent comment only to find self in hell. I recall commenting on a post on LI and I mentioned my personal dislike to using the word boss. It was just a secondary point in my comment. The author not only replied violently by describing me as the most ignorant person he met wit, but also sent me a nasty message. Instead of appreciating me taking the time to read and comment on his post he became so...... Sometimes we find ourselves in battles that we didn't think of.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 6 سنوات #69
"The only modulation that should be exercised in this space arises out of the need to respect the greater environment and all that live therein (do no harm to life nor limb and property that is owned by another)." Beyond Win-Win strategies between two or more individuals lies conflict. Healthy conflict specifically. Within this we require absolute to guide us through to win-win. Your statement provides one of many other absolutes and is the purpose of my engagement here. I believe we can state that within this healthy conflict the variables continue to distort the path to success as we grasp for relative positions to guide. However these relative positions change with time, human involvement and to some extent media. I enjoy your comments and thought processes as i agree we place way to much emphasis on the existential feedback that is always relative and changing. It is a very difficult task to know who i am via the "Social Mirror" and even a greater task to maintain that reflective surface for my own well being. My personal opinion is without absolutes (Your quote above.) we expose ourselves to variables within the social mirror that provide us with mental anarchy. Ultimately leading to the limiting beliefs you discuss,. and the cycle begins.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #68
Sara Jacobovici- you wrote "Am I not in the program to be a therapist? Am I not expecting individuals to come to me for therapy? So how can I be the best therapist I can without going through the process of being the client"? Simple, yet powerful question for if we don't live the experience we shall fail to make others live it.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #67
Sara Jacobovici- You wrote "The collective then, as a living organism, thrives". What a wonderful thought! Love the idea that what evolves is a living system. Great thought to ponder on.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #66
- Tausif Mundrawala- this idea is a buzz on its own "I think bacteria has paid heed to the saying that straight trees are cut first and its better to stay crooked". Explore further my friend. It is worthy. I thank you for your good words .
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #65
My saving grace is that I am a process oriented person Ian Weinberg, so I value my process/attempt towards achieving this absolute (which I totally agree with) rather than when or will I actually get there in my lifetime. Thanks Ian for being able to articulate, to put into words, what is often for me, beyond words.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #64
yes, all processes have a range beyond which the process deviates
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #63
- Indeed, and I fully agree with you Sara Jacobovici. When our reputation survival is at risk then how do we react? This is another form of survival and it may lead to unexpected actions.
Ian Weinberg
منذ 6 سنوات #62
Harvey Lloyd I would contend that there is indeed an 'absolute' that we can strive towards - personal, subjective gratification. It is a space which transcends the requirement of the need for positive feedback and positive recognition from others. It is purely a personal, creative space from which personal gratification sustains our vitality and ongoing engagement. We effectively re-establish and feed personal authenticity - environmental recognition and accolades become merely the 'icing on the cake'! The only modulation that should be exercised in this space arises out of the need to respect the greater environment and all that live therein (do no harm to life nor limb and property that is owned by another). The ultimate prize of course is if the activity providing gratification in the personal space contributes value and positive evolutionary influences upon the greater environment with resulting positive feedback. Here will arise the double positive 'whammy' contributing to personal gratification.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 6 سنوات #61
Ian Weinberg i enjoy Viktor Frankl's work and discussions but have to say that it is at the interface of my existence and yours where purpose must but found. In establishing ones own existence it can only be tested in the broader sense of the community. Peoples self defeating behaviors must be seen in the light of the community. Lacking this comparison we can not offer therapy as we have nothing to gauge outcomes against. Limiting beliefs and subsequent therapies would imply a destination. If freedom is the destination then should this definition be universally understood? The Supreme Court Justice who stated that he knows pornography when he sees it is a great quote but in the end is the exact question of freedom we discuss here. In our post modern world with no absolutes, can we truly define the freedoms in assisting others gain their existence? All things are relevant until we become the victim, then we search for absolutes. In this we struggle where the freedom of one begins and and another ends. Great thoughts and stirring conversation.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #60
Great line/place Harvey Lloyd, "...the over lap of your freedom and mine". Reading it over again and still "buzzing" in my mind. Thanks.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #59
Perfect Ian Weinberg! Thank you for a classic Ian Weinberg comment; beautifully written, beautifully said. And thank you for including logotherapy. Viktor Frankl's work is one of the pillars of my work.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 6 سنوات #58
I agree responsible is the word. The struggle is when we define that responsibility at the over lap of your freedom and mine.
Ian Weinberg
منذ 6 سنوات #57
I fully agree with you Sara Jacobovici Ultimately we're referring to degrees of authenticity reflecting the potential for neuroplastic evolution within the unique subjective narrative. For me the one 'universal' objective to strive for in order to approach authenticity (by shedding the shackles of limiting beliefs) is value contribution: to self - to realize one's full potential of meaning and purpose (see logotherapy) and to the greater environment - making it better than it was before you engaged with it.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #56
The word that came up in my mind when I was reading the following Harvey Lloyd, "Are we killing the Goose by taking more from the community than it can produce through our freedoms and uniqueness? " is responsibility. I don't think we can be "authentically free" without being responsible.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #55
The question of what kind of freedom do we have in the different communities we live or work in and how do we express that freedom, Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee, reminded me of my first day of orientation of my postgraduate studies. I was about to start the process of learning and training to be a therapist. During the orientation I hear the speaker say, "you're not obligated, as part of your program requirements, to do so but each of you should be in personal therapy work while you are attending your studies." I'll never forget my reaction; after the orientation, I stamped out of the building and paced up and down the sidewalk muttering under my breath, "how can they imply that I should be in personal therapy, it is my choice!" Then, I started to slow down and asked myself, why am I having this reaction? Am I not in the program to be a therapist? Am I not expecting individuals to come to me for therapy? So how can I be the best therapist I can without going through the process of being the client? How can I be the best therapist I can without understanding who I bring to therapy; mine and my future clients? I then turned into student services and made an appointment to begin my therapy work. Long story to say; my program gave the students the freedom to choose.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #54
Nothing weird about developing our thinking CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit, especially since you are a contributor to my developing my thinking. The point following your last point about genes is....and then there is epigenetics. This may sound cliche, but as long as our beliefs remain dynamic and not rigid, then there is no reason not to form them. Individually, we form them and use them to attach/bond to a collective. The collective then, as a living organism, thrives. As long as that is taking place, we're OK. It is only when something influences that collective's ability to thrive that the individual can choose whether to continue to remain attached or to disconnect/dissociate from that attachment. "Never a dull moment!"
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #53
Thank you for bringing my attention to Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee. I find Jean alway provides much insightful information. I love your term ""The reputation survival", Dr. Ali. I think in this case, it has to come down to sheer common sense. Yes, we have the freedom, but we need to be practically smart about how to use it.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #52
Ian Weinberg, you define authentic as "...an individual who has transcended the limiting beliefs and compromised behavior of deprivation and who has the courage to exercise a higher sensitivity and value system..." Professionally and clinically I work from within the perspective of the developmental model and so, couldn't agree more with your definition. I work with individuals who want to let go of those limiting beliefs and had the courage to survive the impact of deprivation and continue to show the courage to grow and transcend those earlier experiences. In order for me to be fully engaged with this process, I need to suspend any judgment as to what the individual chooses as his or her authentic value system. Each process forms its own value system; individually each one is unique. Collectively, it's a different story. We can't give everyone the freedom to be their authentic self if their authentic self is ethically questionable. I have come to grips with the fact that some people, authentically choose to be "bad".
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #51
I can't disagree with your well articulated argument Ian Weinberg. I think it's a matter of perspective. I come into it from the point of view of freedom as being an innate capacity and that is where choice comes from. What takes place in the world is manifestations of behaviors which are ethical or not, and the abuse of power that then influences how we get to express our individual freedom. You write, "...when whole systems (institutions, cities, countries) become corrupted and oppressive, freedom demands become appropriate on condition that they are led by those who are authentically evolved. Otherwise ‘reactive freedom’ behavior will re-create the same compromised system." Agreed. Now when you describe individuals who are "authentically evolved" that carries over into your next comment and your definition of authentic.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #50
This is a perplexing issue Pamela \ud83d\udc1d Williams. Leaders know the problem, know the solution and then act wrongly.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #49
Harvey Lloyd
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 6 سنوات #48
"Intent". Freedom is based on the intent that each is seeking and allowing all to have the freedoms. The free press was established based on tyranny and the ability to expose such acts or conditions. The intent has changed. The free press is now about sensationalizing any point for the sake of viewers or demographics. Ultimately to engage folks at a subconscious emotional level. This intent brings fortune and fame to a few at the expense of others. The boomers still carry enough history, pre-internet, that we can discern the differences when we are being emotionally motivated towards a brand. Post internet generations have seen only this form of media. Our first amendment "Freedom of speech" leaves us wanting in this new world of faux news and the ultimate dissemination of this news across channels of opinion. We communicate because we want something, community engagement or self perpetuation. Until we begin to look at intent of news then we will be subject to its whims and outcomes. Enjoyed your view Ian Weinberg.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #47
I greatly appreciate your comment Harvey Lloyd. I shall wait for her response. All I can say now that my last three comments are aligned with your comment. I thank you again for actively participating in these wonderful discussions.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 6 سنوات #46
I believe your comments reinforce my understanding of freedom. The paradox. We wish to retain some uniqueness/freedom within the community yet we find ourselves at odds with the community in developing this uniqueness. Ego, self expression and pride are all oriented towards our unique position within the community. When the community registers this condition, it has the opportunity to reward or punish the uniqueness. The ultimate question does my uniqueness/freedom trump the greater whole of the community? Or; Can i find my uniqueness within the communities needs? The latter serves the community as the higher priority. The simplicity of this discussion is embodied in the "Golden Goose". The community is the source of our success or failure (Goose). Are we killing the Goose by taking more from the community than it can produce through our freedoms and uniqueness? Media would suggest that this is the case as we look at how people are aligning in patterns against the community as a whole. All with valid unique reasons and supported by the freedoms afforded through law. As usual Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee stirs a debate that helps us discuss the broader implications of freedom in its current definition.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #45
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #44
- in thermodynamics that is a rule which means we don't get anything for nothing. WE can't get authenticity and freedom without side effects. I tried to highlight those bad side effects and I am glad you enjoyed the buzz. Your comment highlights further those side effects and your thinking is simple to understand and absorb. In Arabic we have a saying which I may translate to "Your freedom ends when the freedom of others initiates". I can shout as loudly as I wish, but if I disturb my neighbors then my freedom end. Authenticity that promotes individualism is harmful. You highlighted this point elegantly in your comment. I appreciate your engagement in these lovely discussions.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #43
"Egotistical people are subject to their own self-idealized biofilm of self-reinforcing thoughts". Deb \ud83d\udc1d Helfrich- now I am certain that beBee is the platform. It is the exchange of cpmments that led to this precious wisdom and super quote. I feel that if beBee would collect all the wisdom generated by bees it shall have its own "BrainyBeBeequotes".
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #42
Deb \ud83d\udc1d Helfrich- I am moved by your comment and its deep and confident tone. I am particularly please with your highlighting my comment #15 because I had lots of heated discussions on similar issues. We coexist with microbes and sometimes we don't. When microbes find a way to ensure their survival it is not degrading if we learn and improve on what microbes do. You make me think of another possibility to make this buzz more relevant. We say that negative thoughts are like microbes. Are we aware that those thoughts may form then a biofilm that is resistant to the antibiotics of positive thinking? This idea came to my mind because of your comment. I feel almost certain this is a likely possibility. I wonder what you think.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #41
This is great CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit. In reference to "If science is in need of greater freedom to bust its own myths, what chance do we have as human beings to bust our assumptions" it is my belief that the only assumption that we should drop always is knowing. Once we allude ourselves that we know then everything shall be off the rail.
CityVP Manjit
منذ 6 سنوات #40
I read this http://www.nature.com/news/scientists-bust-myth-that-our-bodies-have-more-bacteria-than-human-cells-1.19136 and I welcome it since it shows how much of science is in the belief business also. One scientist talks of number of genes, another compares cells but neither know anything about how bacteria and human cells talk to each other or what the combinations mean. There is so much that science is still finding out. If science is in need of greater freedom to bust its own myths, what chance do we have as human beings to bust our assumptions. It supports how much we actually live in mythologies, whether these are scientific mythologies or religion. The Smithsonian article provides two cavaets See http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/microbe-cells-dont-outnumber-your-own-180957762/ 1. Microbial genes are still greater in number than human genes in our body 2. Lovely item about defecation being the great equalizer and great to see scientists use lowest common denominator also:-) "The microbes lost in each “defecation event” could be enough to flip the ratio in favor of human cells, the researchers write." So even with the example of science we are belief based agents. The only thing I can determine here is that the universe grants greater freedom to microbial life than it does to human life. It is we humans who are vain enough to seek to be human.
CityVP Manjit
منذ 6 سنوات #39
I read this http://www.nature.com/news/scientists-bust-myth-that-our-bodies-have-more-bacteria-than-human-cells-1.19136 and I welcome it since it shows how much of science is in the belief business also. One scientist talks of number of genes, another compares cells but neither know anything about how bacteria and human cells talk to each other or what the combinations mean. There is so much that science is still finding out. If science is in need of greater freedom to bust its own myths, what chance do we have as human beings to bust our assumptions. It supports how much we actually live in mythologies, whether these are scientific mythologies or religion. The Smithsonian article provides two cavaets 1. Microbial genes are still greater in number than human genes in our body 2. Lovely item about defecation being the great equalizer and does not science descent to lowest common denominator also :-) "The microbes lost in each “defecation event” could be enough to flip the ratio in favor of human cells, the researchers write." See http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/microbe-cells-dont-outnumber-your-own-180957762/ So even with the example of science we are belief based agents. The only thing I can determine here is that the universe grants greater freedom to microbial life than it does to human life. It is we humans who are vain enough to seek to be human.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #38
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #37
Now, I can easily digest your comment (or, the bacteria in my body can digest) and I concur with your concluding remark "The Individual and the Group are interdependent in general. Each with a characteristic circle of freedom, the radius of which is the dependency factor". Again, I emphasize dear Praveen Raj Gullepalli that I am on a discovery path and I am open to all new ideas. I expressed in the buzz that belief in the need to discuss this buzz. I am very satisfied with the engagement rate (44 comment from 800 views). This is very satisfying. Together we try to understand more.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #36
So, I would love your feedback CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit (#40) in view of your comment.
CityVP Manjit
منذ 6 سنوات #35
Humanity is not a belief it is a being. If I have a tribal belief about what humanity is and another tribe has a belief what humanity is, we now have two beliefs about what humanity is. There is a part of being which translates the same in any language - that being can exist between two people who do not know each others language or culture or belief system. We call this universal characteristics that translate beyond belief - yet maybe that too is a belief rather than essence of being. From that being emerges health. Why do we prefix media with social media if it is media? Why do we prefix health if it is health? When does being surpass belief? In this very question we have a greater chance to descend to madness than ascend to genius. Now when it comes to freedom, I have provided examples below that inform us that the number of microbial genes surpass our human genes by a factor of 10 x 1 in our own bodies and that science has shown that there is a learning and communicating relationship between our microbial being and our human being. That changes what I think of freedom. When I began reading this particular buzz I had an assured belief about freedom, but now I can see this too is a belief. I am now in a different position than from where I was when I began thinking about this buzz. If I am in a different place, then there is an element of freedom in breaking through a belief, but a belief is not freedom. Our bodies are a universe to 90% of genes that are not even me and in that same moment I am a piece of star-dust to a universe. Freedom is getting really weird.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #34
The analogy could be dissonant Joanne Gardocki, but the discussions are warming me up. Sometimes, I wonder how dissonant is the analogy of humans with bacteria even though the number of bacteria residing in our bodies are far greater than our imagination. The estimates as of January 2016 are as follows "The Weizmann scientists redid the estimate and found that there were about 39 trillion bacterial cells in the body. They also estimated the number of human cells in the body, about 84% of which are red blood cells, finding there to be about 30 trillion human cells in the body". SOmething to ponder on. I certainly believe your sound suggestion is a differentiator to this discussion "Standing at the correct centered place, we each have the freedom to be our best self in any moment and allow others the freedom and support to explore and discover the same". A great comment is the one that keeps me thinking even after responding to. Your comment falls in this category.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #33
WOW! You contribute a tremendously wonderful comment Sara Jacobovici. This is a significant issue and our freedom to write and publish easily could become the killer of our reputation. I loved the references in your comment which supported immensely your comment, Jean. +I do hope commenters would pay due attention to your valuable comment because it is an eye-opener. I shall wait for comments and I shall comment then again..
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #32
#30 I am not sure if Sara Jacobovici would be able to respond till tomorrow night. I shall be waiting impatiently what her mind will comment. One thing I am sure of- the waiting shall be worthy.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #31
I can't thank you enough for making your point so clear Sara Jacobovici mentioned in his comment we are segregating societies on wealth. Is this a mode of survival? I don't claim I am right and I wrote this buzz trying to understand more. I am like you enjoying these discussions immensely. I am not even responding to comments individually because I want to read comments before I respond. I am truly open to all points of view.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #30
Sara Jacobovici- I am sure you realize that you were in my mind while writing this buzz. I am not surprised to read few comments by you. Our interaction on movement was surely on my mind while writing this buzz. I read your comment few times and was alerted by your writing "My gut reaction is, the only thing that may be endangered is my livelihood or in more extreme cases, my life. If I am being forced to deny my authentic opinion and conform to the "system's" opinion". I don't deny this, but at the same time what if our individual survival is based on being part of a community like bacteria in a biofilm which make the community more resistant to antibiotics more than any authentic bacteria can have. This is the other side of the coin, which I tried to highlight.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #29
I am eager to read the response of CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #28
Thank you dear Praveen Raj Gullepalli. You bring "hot" points for discussion. No two trees are similar as well. But trees live in communities. The authentic differentiation doesn't stop trees from forming communities. I also say that the weak may become strong if they form a "biocommunity", in emulation of biofilms. I respect authenticity as long as it doesn't hinder forming social communities. I don't dispute your authentic comment and I feel as different as it is from other comments; still it pools us around its depth.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #27
Simply a bewildering comment that you wrote Harvey Lloyd. Success leading to the segregation of successful groups to form their own communities. Amazingly, bacteria communities as biofilms do he same. Some bacteria leave the community to form new communities. However; as the bacteria move they don't disturb the existing community. Yes, success may bring segregation in human communities and even may disturb the existing ones. Wealth is doing the same and the rich gets richer and the poor poorer. A lot to ponder on.
Ian Weinberg
منذ 6 سنوات #26
Sara Jacobovici ‘Authentic’ needs to be further defined. A deprivation heritage gives rise to later behavior which incorporates fear, aggression, low self-esteem etc. Are we authentic when we behave reliably in accordance with these determinants? Or is authenticity that which describes an individual who has transcended the limiting beliefs and compromised behavior of deprivation and who has the courage to exercise a higher sensitivity and value system? The latter is the only person that has incorporated sensitivity and awareness of self and of the environment as well as a drive to value contribution. This is what I have defined as being an authentic individual.
Ian Weinberg
منذ 6 سنوات #25
Sara Jacobovici The unfortunate consequences of ‘freedom’ is seen for example in the free press which does not seem to be able to/does not wish to regulate itself and thereby disseminates partial truths or untruths; in groups or segments of the population that initiate protest action which becomes insensitive to negative consequences upon others (not to mention damage to life or property) and for which no responsibility is taken etc. And so what I am saying is that ‘freedom’ has to be regulated until people have matured or evolved to a point where there is sensitivity for the greater collective together with accountability. ‘Authenticity’ incorporates sensitivity, clarity, accountability and value contribution to the greater collective. Without this authenticity, there can be no right to self-interest driven ‘freedom’ demands. Of course when whole systems (institutions, cities, countries) become corrupted and oppressive, freedom demands become appropriate on condition that they are led by those who are authentically evolved. Otherwise ‘reactive freedom’ behavior will re-create the same compromised system.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #24
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #23
I always find your comments very thought provoking and very well written Harvey Lloyd. This comment is no exception. You argue your point well but I am not convinced that as human beings we are ever independent from a community of other people. I am not saying we can't live and survive on our own, whether through material or intellectual success, or that we do not separate ourselves and continue to survive. The question is, what kind of survival or existence do we form in isolation of community? I just don't see our species as being anything else but living within an interdependent relationship.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #22
I always enjoy when reading one of your buzzes, Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee, to first read your buzz (a few times) and then scroll down to the first comment and work my way up reading and exchanging. As I was doing that I had in mind (and I know you believe me) the question I then read here in your comment in which you tag me. You asked, "If I hold an authentic opinion and strongly defend it if in fact I am endangering my own freedom and authenticity? " My gut reaction is, the only thing that may be endangered is my livelihood or in more extreme cases, my life. If I am being forced to deny my authentic opinion and conform to the "system's" opinion, "or else...", my freedom to choose is not lost, and my choice remains authentic.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #21
I apologise ahead of time if I misinterpreted your comment Ian Weinberg. You write, "Somehow there is an inherent lack of commitment and accountability when there is too much 'freedom'." It makes me feel that this comes out of the Industrial Revolution and reminded me of a quote by one of my favorite creative people (so I was a bit disappointed in seeing this), Twyla Tharp, who said, "In the not-for-profit world, there can be wastefulness because there's not the desperate urgency of when you're on a clock." In my mind, authentic is expressed through an honest expression of self. Being committed and accountable to that expression takes place regardless of the environment in which we find ourselves.
Sara Jacobovici
منذ 6 سنوات #20
As usual, I find myself thinking of all the interconnected layers of your comments CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit. So it's hard to pull out one of the threads but I would like to highlight a couple. You write, "Social health is often acquired at the expense of humanity." Not so sure about that one. This will sound weak, but it depends....each community rallies around its own belief system. There are actual communities that aspire to a social health based on their belief in humanity. You write, "We seek values like humanity without knowing how to create a society that is humane..." agreed! And finally, I hang on to the fact that we are free no matter what, as long as we are in the conscious act of choosing how to respond to our internal and external circumstances, we never lose our freedom.
Harvey Lloyd
منذ 6 سنوات #19
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #18
Yes, I agree on this point. Once a common goal has been approved we need to focus and channel efforts without undue distractions. You remind me of my buzz on Focus or Not. In that buzz I addressed the problems of too much focusing or distractions.
Devesh 🐝 Bhatt
منذ 6 سنوات #17
humans also diverge and converge. Ants and bees are not capable of learning from humans but we can learn from them. The problem lies in getting distracted. Ants and bees are crystal clear about their objectives. We have the liberty to change our objectives and we tend to get distracted under time constraints.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #16
Devesh \ud83d\udc1d Bhatt- I decided that I shouldn't be always the author and judge. You may have noticed lately that I respond to comments afterwards to allow for the exchange of ideas between readers freely(111). I wish here to highlight a line in your comments, which I find very interesting. "The best way through is convergence without which we either succumb to caution or careless causality". I expect some comments on this line. Ants first diverge and then converge. Bees also divert into many potential nectar sources before conversing to one. The timing of conversion is important.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #15
I wonder sometimes if authenticity is the power to change Pascal Derrien! If I hold an authentic opinion and strongly defend it if in fact I am endangering my own freedom and authenticity? If authenticity id sticking to my own self and beliefs and then my :biofilm of beliefs" turns wrong then what value authenticity has? I extend the same questions to all authors on beBee who wrote on authenticity. I even dare more and address the same questions to all bees who praised beBee for being authentic. I feel the great need now to hear the voices of Sara Jacobovici
Devesh 🐝 Bhatt
منذ 6 سنوات #14
now the question you ask here is about authenticity or pride? Coexist within the context that we are individual parts of a collective whole like the microorganisms within our body. There are many ways to look at the questions you pose but lets reduce them to two for the sake of understanding. The first keeps learning at the core for understanding and output. Like you do. The comparatives are mesmerising. The second is inverting the output over learning and we become aware of the risks. The best way through is convergence without which we either succumb to caution or careless causality. I am presuming that the question here is How much authentic must we be? Well, it is an introspective question rather than a scale of evaluating another beyond the terms of engagement.
Pascal Derrien
منذ 6 سنوات #13
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #12
Devesh \ud83d\udc1d Bhatt- Can an authentic person lay down his pride and learn from microbes, ants, bees, trees, and....? Unfortunately, this hasn't been the case and many people blamed me on other platforms for degrading the human. No, I believe we elevate the human in us if we learn from even bacteria. Be authentic and be free as long as you are willing and open to others. I therefore liked your first line "We exist because we coexist and vice versa". The big question is coexist with whom? Thank you Devesh because you always bring new ideas to our discussions.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #11
Yes, dear debasish majumder we have two extreme options or decisions to live with. But do we change and become self-organizing such as bacteria did to form biofilms? Authenticity is the ability to adapt. Rigid authenticity is harmful. I mean it fully.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #10
Antoinette Capasso-Backdahl- your two lines say a lot and are deep in meaning. I refer to your writing that bacteria unite because they are authentic. I love this idea. You remind me of sand and clay. Sand grains are strong individually, but they don't drop this authenticity and so a little wind blows the sand grains away. In contrast, clay particles are less authentic in that they stick to each other and work as a community. The sand grains kept "their freedom" to move even by external factors. The clay particles sacrificed their freedom of movement to strengthen the community. I love comments that make me think such as this one.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #9
Deb \ud83d\udc1d Helfrich- you are a mastermind. I read your comment a minimum of four times. Each time the last two paragraphs froze my eyes with their depth. "Belonging quite rightly necessitates turning our gaze to how to join our puzzle pieces into those of others, thereby creating a dynamic tensile strength. Glue. Biofilm. There are emergent properties as units bond together in unlimited fractal sequences that depend on each unit retaining its authentic shape. And as the pattern grows in dimensions, there become these little niches where an entirely new form of authenticity can start a brand new pattern that can begin replicating in the complexity of the nooks and crannies that inevitably occur within incredibly complex systems". You explained the complexity of biofilms in simple terms, but deeply thoughtful. I combine your comment with that of CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit and I believe this combination shall lead us to great discussions. I honestly wish to read more contributions before proposing the simple rules that lead to the formation of "biofilm of beliefs".
CityVP Manjit
منذ 6 سنوات #8
The relationship is so interesting that I wonder whether my own microbial genes are laughing at my focus on expressing our humanity. How do we have accountability for a relationship which is symbiotic when that accountability is somewhere other than our own being? We are always chasing for balancing the accountability between us rather than within us. Are my microbial genes accountable to me or is the me a relationship? That is why authenticity and freedom are a problem, we have to account for the relationship which emerges in us intelligence and humanity, rather than treat the human in us, as the only thing that we are. This relationship must surely propagate social health and social health is not necessarily what we deem to be our humanity - it is best our CULTURE. At what point does culture start? Not at social health but within us? Finally, A Map Of All The Microbes On Your Body http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2012/06/13/154913334/finally-a-map-of-all-the-microbes-on-your-body HuMiX, Human-Microbial-Co-culture Device https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGyeH3MdPnU
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #7
Ian Weinberg. I started to smell my engagement" in lovely forthcoming discussions.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #6
"Until we live in a society where humanity is the foundation of our education and not the prayer for our hopes, authenticity is only found in anarchy - but the problem with anarchy is that it is an empty and worthless freedom". The bacteria called belief divides us as human beings and socializes us not to be individual, but a biofilm of social health". You rad not my mind, but more the drive that urged me to write this buzz. CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit in light of the comment he contributed later.
Devesh 🐝 Bhatt
منذ 6 سنوات #5
Ian Weinberg
منذ 6 سنوات #4
CityVP Manjit
منذ 6 سنوات #3
The reality of our world is that in some societies authenticity gets you killed. In wealthy societies it gets you marginalized either as crazy person or as a danger to democracy. Until we live in a society where humanity is the foundation of our education and not the prayer for our hopes, authenticity is only found in anarchy - but the problem with anarchy is that it is an empty and worthless freedom. We do not experience authentic freedom, we experience surrogacy. The surrogate we use today is called democracy and we give that system the name freedom, but the ties that bind us to that system are not free. We have created a belief called "freedom" and thereby created a privilege we call freedom. We should be referring to freedom as privilege, but if we are to remain beggars then the illusion of freedom is better than the perils and uncertainty of freedom. The bacteria called belief divides us as human beings and socializes us not to be individual, but a biofilm of social health - constructed of this bacteria that is the belief we hold to, together with the strain of bacteria we call nationality. The ultimate proof of this bacteria of belief is called our CULTURE. This culture found in the petri dish of belief becomes the very biofilm that coats authenticity, coats freedom and coats humanity. Thus we will always observe the sacrifice and decay of authenticity, the sacrifice and decay of freedom and the sacrifice and decay of humanity. The great irony of all is the social health we call civilization and our democratic ideals. True authenticity and free movement would eradicate the plaque we base our beliefs on. We are centuries removed from having a humanity that is human in its constitution, undivided and free. To lose that plaque will only take us to anarchy - which is the worst kind of authenticity and worst kind of freedom. Social health is an alternative to anarchy as a merciful choice that avoids the abyss which lacks humanity.
Ali Anani
منذ 6 سنوات #2
This is an extremely illuminating comment dear CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit. You said it beautifully "What we consequently declare as authentic is actually the biofilm of social health and not the authenticity of freedom". This is my gem of the day. To form communities we need to follow simple rules. This means the restriction of individual freedom and obedience to simple rules that are easy to understand, follow and to allow for emerging resilient structures. I am so happy to read your "authentic" comment that froze me. SOmetimes authenticity freezes us and so limits our movement.
CityVP Manjit
منذ 6 سنوات #1