Different, but Similar

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Sometimes we tend to give different names to similar things. Like twins, we give them different names to distinguish between them but the twins’ similarities are greater than their differences.

In management, we find many similar models that have different names. However. We might overlook their similarities and treat them as separate topics. One case is the Johari Window, the Cynefin Framework and icebergs. The Johari Window has a matrix of what you know and don’t know about yourself versus what others know or don’t know about you. The Obvious domain is what you know about yourself and what others do. What you know about yourself and others don’t know is the façade (hidden) part of you. What others know about you and you don’t know as if you were blind puts self in the blind domain. The unknown zone is what you don’t know about self and others don’t know as well is the unknown domain.

By simple tweaking of our thinking by asking what you know about a system and others know about it qualifies as the obvious domain in the Cynefin framework. Why you don’t know about a system and others don’t know as well is obviously the unknown zone that is equivalent to the chaotic domain in the Cynefin framework. What you don’t know about the system (blind to it) and others know about qualifies as the complex domain. The complicated zone is where you know about a system that others don’t know. For good discussion on this coupling of the Johari window and the Cynefin framework you may refer to this reference. I drew the image below with coded arrow colors to spot the relationship easily.

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It is obvious as we go “deeper” in a system it tends to progress more towards the unknown by you and others. It resembles an iceberg- the surface is known to you and others, whereas the bottom is unknown to you and others. Even if we go deeper in self, we find the system (each one of us) slides more to complexity and chaos. Now, if we have more people working together the unknown are submerged in the iceberg and the unknown interact. Unknown interacting with many unknowns and most likely shall produce chaos, or may produce “fake order”. Group think is one example where we see the obvious as an orderly state of an agreement, but below the surface we are far from order.

The question that clouds my mind can people with their unknown playing unseen roles underneath the surface produce order? They may sometimes such as the emerging healthy cultures in organizations. But I guess more often than not, they tend to produce chaos. For order to emerge we need to follow simple rules and abide by them so that humans may “fly together” in an orderly pattern.

Maybe this is the problem of humans- instead of following simple rules they tend to make them complex that under the iceberg they tend to become chaotic. Is there a real meaning for trust and transparency in such cases? The greater transparency we have and the greater trust we build among us the simpler the rules of engagement shall be. If not, complex rules shall tend to send us to chaos.

Tell me how simple the rules in an organization are, I tell you how orderly I expect this organization to be.
Ali Anani

I dedicate this buzz to my good mind-mate Cyndi wilkins
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Comments
Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#64
WOW! This fits so well with my response to the comment by Cyndi wilkins #63. Your cycle is superb and your explanations fit so well with my thinking. I also agree that the regression phase is the determining one because we need to off-load long-held beliefs. Your comment Harvey Lloyd is so practical and is really worthy and shall stick in my mind for long times.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#63
I went out for few hours. Upon my return I read these two super comments by Cyndi wilkins. I consider both comments as precious presents. Cyndi- I smiled upon reading "This requires becoming 'self-aware'...The 'blinders' have to come off" My mind went back to my buzz titled "Is Self-Awareness a Remote Dream"? https://www.bebee.com/producer/@ali-anani/is-self-awareness-a-remote-dream The more we know and become aware of ourselves, the more we find how much more we don't know. It is this conscious realization that made me wonder if we are chasing our shadows. I fully agree with your subsequent observation "Sometimes, just by simply being 'aware' of our emotions in the moments we are triggered by a particular stimulus is enough to create the 'space' for the objectivity necessary for making more 'level-headed' decisions". Maybe for the moment we achieve transient self-awareness that guide us. You leave me with so much to think about..

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #59

#63
Conviction-Revelation-Regression-Courage-Execution Conviction is that moment in time you know something has to change, revelation is the understanding of what that change involves, regression is that period you become self aware of how you got to where you are and what the costs will be going forward. Courage is the phase where you develop the true belief that you are on the right path and execution is the trial and error stances you experience. Regression phase is the one most can not get out. The courage they develop reveals the challenges of putting away the past (of which all of their relationships are built on), exploring an unknown future with failing relationships. Your small moves thoughts are on point.

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

2 years ago #58

#60
Great dialogue here Harvey Lloyd...This statement in particular captured my thoughts... " over time we can become something we choose to be." We are exactly what we choose to be in any given moment...Whether we are aware of it or not. We can either create unconsciously or consciously...The latter of course, being the more effective approach for creating desired outcomes. This requires becoming 'self-aware'...The 'blinders' have to come off. Sometimes, just by simply being 'aware' of our emotions in the moments we are triggered by a particular stimulus is enough to create the 'space' for the objectivity necessary for making more 'level-headed' decisions. Those who create unconsciously fall into that 'helpless/hopeless' category and sleepwalk their way to 'fate.' Nonetheless, it is still of their OWN creation. The 'Shape Shifter' is that 'space between' I was referring to in that 'Cynefin' piece...It is there we consciously create change...To recognize another reference made by Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee as to the 'SWOT' analysis in terms of personal growth opportunities, We evolve by recognizing the 'weaknesses' in our past and transforming them into the 'strengths' in our present...This subsequently creates positive changes in our future. However, active participation is required...Without it, we are just throwing darts in the dark...

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#60
This is what makes a great leader. Acceptance to review h/h perspective and change accordingly. Slaves to old habits or practiced procedures might find selves in a rabbit hole. Again, looking at the Johari Window or the Cynefin framework we know as we change the domain of our business, so also must change our approaches. Dealing with simple, lately renamed to obvious, is different from dealing with complex issue and organizations. Best practices will only work for the simple systems, and there aren't many of them left. Your comments here Harvey Lloyd are commendable.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#59
Great interpretation of your previous comment and I wholeheartedly welcome it. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. A leader acting as a model for others by acknowledging his weaknesses to his team shows not only humility, but also readiness to ask for help. Yes, perspective is vital and a leader with low perspective shall hide his weaknesses, but in doing so, becomes stressed for fear he would be found out. I don't dispute a word of your comment Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #55

#50
I find Heuristics a fascinating study. The study and ultimate understanding comes with a caveat. Free will. To know something is, in and of itself a great challenge within self awareness. The caveat is can you now change the perspective to alter the results? I encounter many people who don't want to know and those that know and chalk it up to fate. I fall in the camp that overtime we can become something we choose to be. Its not easy, but free will does exist. Heuristics is a way for us to review what experiences cause what emotions that become axiomatic within our relationships. We can rewrite the axioms. Its difficult. We gave some financial classes for young adults/married couples who didn't manage money well. We were amazed at the number of people that freely admitted they hide the bills in a drawer and refused to look at them/manage. The review process caused relationship issues and seemed hopeless. Free will is about us courageously exposing ourselves to the unknown and developing axioms or perseverance, humility and wisdom. Over multiple applications our axioms begin to change to new experiences of personal success. I am able to slay the dragons i create.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #54

#50
Perspective is everything. My thoughts in sharing our weaknesses were focused on a leaders need to insure weaknesses are not the driving force in their team. More of a teacher perspective, not student. Sharing weaknesses is an exercise in humility. I need not share my weakness but can ask for help in the areas of my life that i am not schooled or have the skills. This is what i meant by sharing. Amazingly the doctor thought was based on my experience with very closed minded folks who show up in front of a doctor and all of a sudden display great humility, vulnerability etc.. Being logical, wouldn't this deference be better served up to, a marriage, business partner or trusted relationship? How does the doctor get such a a free pass from our filters? I do agree that we cant micro manage behaviors in real time. But what we can do is recognize that its OK not top have full understanding of something. Other people can feel in the blanks we have. This requires a us to stow the pride and recognize i am good at what i do, and so are others. Together we make a whole. Enjoyed your thoughts and discussion.

John Rylance

John Rylance

2 years ago #53

I've  read these recent comments around in particular those re the doctor. Like everyone else they are on a learning curve. When my wife was being treated for cancer, her regular Doctor admitted she had never had to deal with a patient with her cancer type and they learnt together. She realised my wife potentially knew more than she did. Currently my wife is clear of the cancer, partly due to each listening to the other and together following the oncologists lead.  It shows 

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#50
Happiness alone with no little sadness may not be as sweet as happiness that follows some form of sadness resulting from failure, disappointment, unmet goals or whatever. Yes, when we realize the value of the two together we may change our perspectives into healthier ones.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#52
It is the sweet pressure that get the juice pouring out of your mind

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

2 years ago #50

#51
Oh dear...The pressure! Lol;-)

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#49
Great to see you involved again in the discussions dear Cyndi wilkins I leave the floor for him. However; the title suggested for a forthcoming buzz sounds great. Now, I expect two more articles from you resulting from our discussions.

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

2 years ago #48

#38
In reference to a subsequent comment made by you Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee... "When we can share our weaknesses at the same level we share our strengths, a trust in communications is formed". Acknowledging our strengths and weaknesses in equal balance can be tricky...But as you say, it is a task well worth engaging in. So in order to simplify things at the risk of overwhelming the psyche...we need to break things up into smaller pieces that are easier to digest...If we are constantly analyzing our behaviors, we are never getting anything done;-) The modeling of 'Heuristics' shows us just how much influence our emotions have over our decisions..In terms of health, negative emotions lead to poor health and 'risky' behaviors...Small shifts in our perspectives and activities and acknowledging our potential weaknesses is a source of great strength, and a much more healthful behavior that equates to our long-term benefits... rather than the 'consequences' of the 'helpless/hopeless' mindset I had heard mentioned many times by Ian Weinberg...I feel his input would be extremely beneficial to this conversation as well;-)

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

2 years ago #47

#36
I have been thoroughly enjoying the exchange here between you Harvey Lloyd...From which you have raised a very pertinent question... "We give the doctor an immediate trust and acknowledge of our weaker position. Why do we do this?" What has immediately come to mind for me is the idea of 'learned helplessness'...Or the belief that one is incapable of making such decisions for themselves. This is the core issue I try to zero in on in terms of our health...We have the power over our 'conditions' by way of our own beliefs and behavior. Our attitudes are so important in the decision making process as they directly effect the outcome of every experience. The first order of business is to identify the mindset of how you see the world..Are you a glass half empty or half full type personality? Obviously, the 'half empty' pessimist is not going to effectively manage the every day life stresses that eventually drive people to the doctor's office in the first place...Over 90% of ALL illness has its roots deeply embedded in 'mind mis-management'...Sounds like the title of another buzz;-)

John Rylance

John Rylance

2 years ago #46

#47
Thank you Ali for those kind words. I will be interested to see what your new buzz says. At the moment my mind is buzzing around circuit building in the brain, nature/nurture, environmental effects etc.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#46
The timing of your comment John Rylance is perfect. We all write comments on the same subject, but few stand out as yours is. If you read the preceding dialogues between Harvey Lloyd and I, you shall find that we were discussing what you quoted "We have similar brains. But they come out in different personalities. Guy Berryman". That shall be the topic of my next buzz in which I shall mention this comment.

John Rylance

John Rylance

2 years ago #44

Ali here are some different but similar quotes to set your mind buzzing. We have similar brains. But they come out in different personalities. Guy Berryman When placed in the same system people however different tend to produce similar results. Peter Serge Resemblances are shadows of differences. Different people see  different similarities and similar differences. Vladimir Narobokov All weddings are much the same but every marriage is different. John Berger I will leave you with this question are we as they say " All the same in the eyes of the law" or are some people different?

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Well, E is correct. N is correct.T is correct. -I am classified as Campaigner (8% of people are like me). The main issue is each personality type has its strengths and weaknesses. So, as important as this classification is, it puzzles me why so many people don't know their personality type. For example, when we form teams how many care for obtaining the classification of each member of the team? I wonder even how many are aware of the meaning of each letter of the classification. By the way, I have taken this tests many times before. Differences are minute among most of the results I obtained.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #42

#43
Always a crystal ball thought process. I would guess that you are an E NorS T J. Not sure of the second letter. Face to face dialogue offers more input than writing. I am interested in what you found.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#41
Your comments have provoked me enough to take an online personality test (which I plan to share with readers soon). I wonder my friend with your probing analysis what do you classify me as!!! I have the results.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#40
Great analysis and thought-provoking as well. You summarized it concisely as "Any personality type, without understanding blind spots, can become self righteous". Great my friend.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #39

#37
INTJ and this quadrant of personalities represent around 5-7% of the population. The NT coupled with their need to see things in black/white or the "J" can be a very demanding internal dialogue, within success. It places the INTJ in a position that ?SFJ is irritating. Yet they make up a significant portion of any customer base. My early years were spent trying to make everyone i met into an INTJ. This proved as difficult as turning lead into gold. A million suns would be needed to complete the task. This is when i began to understand personality types and became aware of how self righteous i had become. This self righteousness served me well in my startups. But soon became the reason for poor growth and customer service. Just because i spend a lot of time thinking intuitively within a program, process or service, doesn't mean others share my motivation or solution.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #38

#39
From your description of the encounter i could surmise that your daughter is more sensing feeling and the doctor responded with intuitive thinking. A generalization, i know. But none the less as we look at the encounter we can see that the doctor "assumed" through expression everyone was like him/her. Your daughter however was looking for trusting, knowledgeable, thoughtful exchange within the facts. This encounter established one of the quadrants within the 75% of the Johari window. A leader in this situation, outside of the reality of your encounter, would express to both the need for better communications styles as we enter the challenges of the process. Maybe making suggestions that the parties better understand the needs of each other outside of skill and weaknesses. Any personality type, without understanding blind spots, can become self righteous. I am good for this, and it is a constant battle for me. I have met doctors with the god complex and some who really understood the needs of their patience communications style. The god complex comes from poor understanding of weaknesses or blind spots within the delivery of care. I typically walk out on these doctors. Even if they are the best. We never fail based on what we do know, it is always failure from what we don't know.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#36
This is a great analogy "Consider the thoughts of seeing a doctor. We give the doctor an immediate trust and acknowledge our weaker position". I just want to add that sometimes the doctors' personality removes trust. I recall my daughter Sara taking her to a famous doctor. His stern looks horrified Sara and she refused to be treated by him. Sometimes a single or passing look may drive away the trust factor.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#35
This is the balance I have been talking about "When we can share our weaknesses at the same level we share our strengths, a trust in communications is formed". Your experience is adding wealth to the discussions here.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#34
To my knowledge, INTJ personalities are among the rarest (if not the rarest) personality types of the sixteen personality types. This personality type excels in compromising differences such as being imaginative, but decisive and ambitious, but care much for their privacy. This is reflected in your comment " I dont express myself publicly or without deep thought about various options". There is a great need to understand these personality types and couple them with the Cynefin framework and Johari window. This is a challenging, but worthy task.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #34

Consider the thoughts of seeing a doctor. We give the doctor an immediate trust and acknowledge our weaker position. Why do we do this? Why wouldn't this same paradigm exist with our team members, within strength and weaknesses? Both questions are driven by fears and the need for control. It is only when we recognize our need for control that we can let go. Understanding that i need others to fill in my weaknesses. This is the hardest step to take in adult life. We start out totally dependent, we emerge from youth to find independence. The success though lies in interdependence. This is the fear step. Interdependence starts with recognizing self and how others fit within our paradigm of need. Deep concepts, but once we take the leap of faith from independent to interdependent it opens up a whole new world of existence.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #33

Understanding the challenges of personalities is the next logic step in creating actionable items within the Johari Window. Understanindg the window is only the first step, how do we move folks into the 25% window is the real goal. I have found success within the language of personality types, strength weakness discussions. When we can share our weaknesses at the same level we share our strengths, a trust in communications is formed. Team members can express their weaknesses from a perspective of learning, or requesting support from another’s strength. Realizing that we all carry our own strengths and weaknesses. Diversity understood and leveraged for the success of the team.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #32

#33
I can explain better than label. I am a INTJ. I dont express myself publicly or without deep thought about various options. My blind spot is the ESFJ. They bring to the table the ability to see the customer or team from a perspective of action and human sensing of “win”. Feeling Sensing people represent about 60%+ of the human domain. They sort things different than i do. This is a wide swath of my customer base. I cant approach these customers without a ESFJ on my staff that i can receive counsel in this blind spot. If any personality type assumes that everyone is like them they will separate their customer base into a very thin group of buyers. We can look at the recent push over the last decade to include women in design and buying of products and services. Really what is being said is how can reach the Sensing/feeling population. A large group of men and women that were typically excluded from consideration. It opened up doors and invited many new customers to the buying experience.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#30
The shadow, the ego and the persona represent three segments of the Johari Window. What other segment you would add to cover the four domains of this window?

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#30
Great thinking this is " What they can do is demonstrate to each member how their weaknesses are reducing their own chances for success, within a given environment". The challenge is to surface out the weaknesses without demoting people. This is a delicate balance and this is the way to go about it.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#29
Great and I thank you for reminding me of the brilliant negotiator 's name.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #28

#28
The strengths and weaknesses we develop through experience and possibly genetics is a complex issue. One of the key factors in understanding self is how our weaknesses manifest within given environments. MB styled understanding demonstrates to us, in a non threatening way, how our weaknesses may sway us from success. I don’t believe that leaders can manage the weaknesses of the team. What they can do is demonstrate to each member how their weaknesses are reducing their own chances for success, within a given environment. They can further discuss ways to fill their weaknesses through other team members strengths. This is the diversity we all want and need within a team.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #27

#25
All politics aside, Lee Iacocca was a brilliant negotiator. He lead Chrysler through some trouble times with full understanding of how to use the Johari window. He introduced that which was hidden to the decision makers in a way he could succeed within his given task.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#26
"I might add that the this style of research and reflection, when not used, harnesses the weaknesses in each team member. A leaders role is to harness the strengths of each member engaged". This is an issue that I have been thinking about for log times. My scientific background causes me some dilemma sometimes. In science we say a material is as strong as its weakest point. So, is there much hope in building on strengths while keeping the weakness there? But also, we need to encourage people and motivate them to produce and gain self-confidence. This means building on their strengths. So, maybe the compromise is to work on both the strengths and weaknesses. This van be very demanding.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#24
". By knowing personalities...". I think this is a central issue Harvey Lloyd. You understand Carl Jung and my exchange of comments with you sometime ago reveal the validity of what I am saying. In your opinion, how many people understand personalities and the Disc model? I can see a new dimension to this buzz based on your comment. The shadow is the hidden part (the unknown). What you show for others and what you know yourself as are the facade and blind spot equivalent to in the Johari Window. You now make me think again...as usual.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #24

#22
I believe this falls squarely within Pareto's thoughts. More importantly, information is something that demonstrates what happened and/or what to do. Leaderships requires the Johari Window, strengths and weaknesses, as discussed demonstrated through a MB paradigm, be used as an affirmative approach to understanding. If “I know” that data such as the Johari Window, Myers-Briggs and other associated research exists then how can i make the statement, Just follow the rules and the outcome will be fine. I might add that the this style of research and reflection, when not used, harnesses the weaknesses in each team member. A leaders role is to harness the strengths of each member engaged. This can only be done with the simple rules you subscribe. The first being that the Johari Window exists along with other stated research in to the human dynamic.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#23
This sounds a very interesting experience. It is enriching and I hope that you would one day share how you probed the Autism using the Johari Window. This is a practical example and provides a good example of implementing the idea that the best theory is an applied one. Your last line makes me wonder. I forgot the name of the manager who was in charge of a soft drink company who later rescued Chrysler from going bankrupt. Some leaders are successful in different environments and others fail to do so.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #22

Our firm measures success based on outcomes. You may work very hard on something, giving 110% but if you don’t achieve the outcome then we have to start over. This can be very deflating to an individual. Many of our hires came from rules based organizations. Follow the rules, execute the plan and you are successful. Negative outcomes become the domain of existential variables and not reflective data of change. New hires felt as if they had been extricated from a vault and placed inside a wide open field. This usually makes them panic. They have no fences of rules within process to protect them from failure. The Johari Window presents us with known conditions when the individual is challenged by change. By knowing personalities, strengths and weaknesses, leaders can lead individuals through change.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #21

A side note, Recently we established a new program for Students with Autism. The program was one we had experienced very bad experiences as presented by other agencies. We rejected it as repetitive data driven froth. Given the drive by government agencies to embrace this style of assistance with students, we investigated deeper. We eventually adopted the methodology. It would have been foolish for our leadership team to assume that certified personnel in this methodology would adapt to our ways of delivery, quickly or easily. We went through the DiSC with the new team and discovered various weaknesses and strengths. More importantly we established where the Johari window would place various personnel. Opening the window for discussion prior to discovery at critical times. I am always amazed at how complex systems or production generate assumed understanding by leadership. A great person in one job within a different company does not insure that will translate to your firm.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#20
No question that you touched upon a crucial point Harvey Lloyd. "Simple rules or process are important but we also need simple rules of navigating the Johari Window. This is exactly what I meant by writing that we tend to complicate the simple and this leads to the 75% of the produced negative effects, as observed by you (I just wonder why not 80% to keep with the Pareto Rule 80%/20%. So much lies under the "iceberg of your comment".

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #19

One such rule would be, the team/project AND i must be successful. Each being successful establishes a Win/Win concept as we look at the Johari Window. Leadership must focus not only on the win of the project but the win inside the individual as well. Their contribution as seen by them. Through acknowledging this simple rule of win/win we can gain tremendous insight into the 75% of the Window that is hidden from us as leaders. The individual win is driven by their experiences, beliefs and fears. A starting point is Myers-Briggs, DiSC or the Enneagram. All a source of understanding what we don't know within team members motivation. Establishing what win may mean to them. At a minimum it establishes conversations when hidden items appear within the project.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

2 years ago #18

A lot to digest here. To narrow the thought process in application i will narrow my comment down to Leadership within the paradigm. Of course in application we could narrow by focusing on family, social or other paradigms. When we look at the Johari Window we immediately recognize that 75% of the conditions are set up to produce negative effects within the team. Or poor communications along a shared path. I believe that the term simple rules needs some defining. Simple rules or process are important but we also need simple rules of navigating the Johari Window. We know it exists and that only time will expose the 75% of conditions. In leadership we must recognize how to develop trust through simple rules as we navigate the various stages of the “Window”.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

I appreciate greatly your sharing the buzz in the consequence of sharing dears Clau Valerio. Your thoughts shall be more than welcome.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#17
You open a huge platform for discussions with your superb comment dear David Navarro L\u00f3pez. You are correct to say " order can seem chaos for somebody who doesn't understand it". I shall ad another example. Some people find order conflicting with their intentions. For example, a person may find a crack in an orderly crystal easier than in chaos. S, criminals find chaos helpful in protecting them. Order for some people is disorder for others with evil intentions. Equally interesting is your assembly of a machine parts. One thing I may point to here is that machines are example of complicated systems more than complex ones. A machine is made of many parts each with a defined function. In complex systems like flying fish or a school of fish consist of thousands of the same species organizing their movements by following the same rule. I think these discussions shall provoke the minds of many and I highlight Cyndi wilkins.

David Navarro López

David Navarro López

2 years ago #15

I had a quick read of this buzz, will come back again, (you know me), but at a first glance, I would like to add another "cloud" to your question "can people with their unknown...produce order?" Talking about known and unknown, order can seem chaos for somebody who doesn't understand it. This is the situation I face in my day-to-day work. When assembling a machine, for someone who is not familiar to it, the parts lying in the shelve waiting to be assembled might seem to be in chaos, but they are ordered by groups and assembling sequence. But every engineer might have his own assembling sequence, due to random reasons, for example, if he is more familiar with a part of the machine, he will assemble these parts first. You could use other criteria to order the parts, for example, by materials they are made of. So order, chaos, known and unknown have a direct relationship with your mentioned "rules". Will give more thougths to your challenging buzz. Well done, my friend.

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

2 years ago #14

#15
You know me too well my friend;-) My weekends away in 'solitude' have a way of conjuring up feast for my thoughts to marinate in...

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#14
"Hmmm, I feel another buzz a brewin'....". I felt this right after reading your first comment, Cyndi. I didn't have any doubt thoughts started to pour in your mind.

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

2 years ago #12

#10
#13 Thank you for that wonderful comment Oswaldo and subsequent translation Ali...I was about to call my daughter into the room as she is becoming quite fluent in Spanish! We are a 'Universal Family' indeed...Human...and NON-human alike...All matter...photons, neutrons, sub-atomic particles...a grain of sand on the beach to a drop in the vast oceans...It is ALL interconnected in consciousness;-) Hmmm, I feel another buzz a brewin'....

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#10
Thank you dear Oswaldo and here is the translation addressed to our friend Cyndi wilkins is called "Reason - Relationship" is a whole from the natural to feel how human we are and we should be from simple acts. (SIMPLE) is the reason - relationship of human behavior, is the pattern designed from our thoughts, emotions, feelings and right actions. A mid-point "MENTAL BALANCE" that describe our duties of conscience for acts with reason. THREE PILLARS - Human behavior: When we are thirsty we drink water. - Human behavior: When we are hungry we eat. - Human behavior: When we sleep we rest

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#11
When you write in a happy tone I feel happiness coming out of your words my dear Debasish Majumder. No wonder, I deservedly called you the scientific poet. Thank you for your very kind words.

Debasish Majumder

Debasish Majumder

2 years ago #9

#9
thank you very much for your continuous support and admiration for me sir Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee! I am privileged and honored. but, I don't have any dilemma that science is a 'poetry' and you too in my evaluation a true 'poet' sir! my inspiration to write poetry since inception. is not it a 'major' appeals which only science can reveal that alone I guess, aptly reflect the 'iceberg' metaphor which you narrated in a unique way, an enigma in human spectrum sir!

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#7
Quite often I ask myself why dear Debasish Majumder didn't major in science? I don't have an answer. Even when we probe far below the surface our cognition bias and negativity bias lead us astray. The internal consciousness that dear Cyndi wilkins mentioned in her comment #4 may blind us from converting the potential energy into a useful kinetic one. At least, I may so so about our thinking potential, which is again limited by our biases. I also thank you for your generous sharing of the buzz my friend.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#6
Dear Oswaldo Enrique Diaz Delgado- I liked this" DIFFERENT BUT SIMILAR? "FLY TOGETHER" I enjoyed the three examples of how similar, but different fly together. Maybe I should consider flying with you:)))

Debasish Majumder

Debasish Majumder

2 years ago #6

firstly, iceberg having the same ingredient whether the visualizing part or hidden part and it the human spectrum and its limitations which is responsible for the fallout. if we just consider as a metaphor then also we have to recognize that our evaluation is alone based on an abstract affair and we strangely observe without knowing we are tend to produce something which is guided by the external condition, aiming to produce an impact capable to navigate us to capture majority whom we consider as commodity and surprisingly not able to fathom we too producers are equally commodity! what an amazing milieu we tend to produce where we all become victims, confronting catastrophe. our capacity to tap our energy converting into potential and later transform into kinetic is our unique quality making us supreme out of all creatures in this world and enabling us to emerge as supreme. however, lovely insightful buzz sir Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee! enjoyed read and shared. thank you for the buzz sir.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#4
I am not surprised at all to read your great response and the reference to your post is on spot. This comment is of high value and I believe writing a buzz with your imagination on how the internal and outer spaces interact will be of high value. We discuss a lot SWOT analysis and how we may realize our strengths and weaknesses to grasp the opportunities and minimize or eliminate threats introduced by the change in the outside environment. Do we need a similar analysis for our internal “environment” and its exposure to the outside “environment”?

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

2 years ago #4

#3
"Recognizing all beings as a conscious 'singularity'. I wonder- and still wondering- if it is our consciousness AND our subconsciousness because this is the "hidden part". Yes, the 'hidden part' is the 'inner space' or the trans-dimensional space unrecognized by our 'traditional realm of physics'. We BELIEVE in 'outer space' because we can view it with our human eyes...But the 'space between' (which I speak of in great detail in my last post on 'Context and Cynefin' ) is where we are able to interface with 'non-local' awareness...or universal mind... to make the shifts in consciousness necessary to transcend us into these higher states being...so as to recognize our true nature as an inter-connected reality of thought... This internal universe is where we have all come from and are working in physicality to overcome our differences... Hopefully, we evolve enough to return home with a renewed sense of who we are as a 'unified mind' all working together to re-establish balance and the health and wellness of all living systems ...The rest is all an 'optical illusion'...Far out huh?

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#2
First, I am glad that I dedicated this post to you dear Cyndi wilkins. Your response adds real value to it. I paused reading this part of your comment "Our differences disappear when we are able to transcend our consciousness to a higher state of awareness by recognizing the inter-connectivity of all beings .as a conscious 'singularity'. I wonder- and still wondering- if it is our consciousness AND our subconsciousness because this is the "hidden part". No matter what still your response gives great examples of separation that leads to chaos. To reverse this trend it has to start from the individual. Here, I agree 100% with your writing "If each person began a regular practice of evolving their own self-awareness". It has to start from the individual level. One more point- how do you relate this post to your latest ones on the cynefin of thoughts? I have strong feelings this shall open new windows of thought.

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

2 years ago #2

#1
Extraordinary buzz Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee....and thank you for the mention here as this very much resonates with me... "Maybe this is the problem of humans- instead of following simple rules they tend to make them complex that under the iceberg they tend to become chaotic." As you are aware, I have spent a great deal of time and energy engineering my thoughts on this subject...What comes to mind for me in terms of the 'problems faced by humanity' is that we still exist within a 'primitive framework' of consciousness. The world is in 'chaos' because the energies of dysfunction are at the helm....We see this being demonstrated very clearly along our US boarders with the separation of children from their families...Ruling by order of 'separation' only gives way to more conflict and a continuing cycle of dysfunction... Our differences disappear when we are able to transcend our consciousness to a higher state of awareness by recognizing the inter-connectivity of all beings .as a conscious 'singularity'...Meaning we are 'ONE' with all things in an infinite 'internal universe'...EVERY PERSON is a portal into a 'Universal Consciousness'... If each person began a regular practice of evolving their own self-awareness... WE the people, as a global community will begin to move forward from a state of chaos to establishing order...

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Cyndi wilkins- I think this buzz has great relevance to your most recent buzzes

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