Glassy Ideas and Opinions

Glassy Ideas and Opinions

Are our ideas and comment glassy? Do they have a glass point above which they behave differently than below it? What practical values these questions have to bother answering them?

Let me start with a story. A three and half years old girl wrote to Sainsbury complaining that their Tiger bread looked more like Giraffe bread. A manager answered her and agreed with her suggestion. The girl's mother published the two letters on social media. The letters went viral and Sainsbury had one choice: to change the bread name. A child may have enough power to pool opinions around her and affect the decision of a big enterprise. Once the public sympathize with an opinion they stick with it.

A study by two Chinese researchers on the effect of tweets on public opinions is quite revealing. They found that public opinions evolve rapidly and soon they level off into an ordered state with one opinion dominant. The effects of larger and larger groups build up become very influential in reaching this state. I tend to call this effect "the fractal effect" as it builds up from scaling up influential groups. It is worth mentioning here that these groups don't achieve complete consensus.

Immediately, the metaphor of polymers jumped up in my head upon reading these findings. Polymers may exist in complete amorphous and disorderly form; they never exist in one hundred percent crystalline form. So, even if we may crystallize opinion into an ordered form there shall always be amorphous areas remaining. Complete ordered states are not possible.
So, when we exchange comments and opinions on many issues here on beBee we may reach some ordered agreement that could reach no more than 95% (and normally less than that). We shall always have the ordered leveling off by forming a general understanding, but shall also have the 'amorphous opinions". So, what to expect? And in shape opinions and ideas end up with?

Polymers settle in few shapes such as cubic and octahedral. Each shape has its characteristic. Molecules vibrate, our ideas vibrate and our opinions vibrate. When we have similar opinions from all sides we end up with a cube-shaped opinion and ideas, for example. However; the main difference is the behavior of these shapes. In case we have a polymer with an ordered state and amorphous state they behave quite differently. The crystalline part (orderly part) melts, but the amorphous one passes through a glass transition point. It behaves like glass. When we have opinions to which the majority agree with we still have amorphous opinions and if we 'cool" them by putting their ideas in the fridge they might become brittle and break sporadically.

Glassy Ideas and Opinions

The beBee platform is a vivid one and commenting and exchange of ideas is a dynamic process. We may build rapid acceptance of some ideas and an opinion may reach acceptance. This shall never be one 100%. This is the law of nature. We may completely disagree, but shall not completely agree. We may find ways to increase our agreements, but they shall not be completely conclusive. Is that a message for us to keep trying harder?

I dedicate this buzz to Fatima Williams for being so inspirational in her solid comments, sharing of my posts and accepting to differ with style.


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Javier 🐝 CR

Javier 🐝 CR

4 years ago #37

thanksDonna-Luisa Eversley for sharing this !

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Thanks dear Donna-Luisa Eversley for your sharing the buzz.

Bill Stankiewicz, 🐝 Brand Ambassador

#1
cool

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #34

#44
Dear Fatima, the bigger journey is renaissance and while I cannot exist in that journey I acknowledge renaissance, and these are the things that way bigger than ourselves, beyond the capacity and capability of our own comprehension. For someone in the middle ages the Internet may well have been renaissance as the bigger unrealized reality, and that is not at all about science fiction such as Mark Twain being credited for being prescient about the Internet http://www.openculture.com/2014/11/mark-twain-predicts-the-internet-in-1898-read-his-sci-fi-crime-story-from-the-london-times-in-1904.html As for the transformational part (because the above paragraph is transcendent above and beyond what may be realized on our own journey of learning). In a journey of learning, it is the journey which is important to me, because I do not know what that journey will reveal, and I am then open to its promise, alert to its dangers and wise to its transformation. The "learning journey" is who I am and the "bigger journey" is humanity as it one day may be - without me manipulating this humanity into being my design. In other words what will eventually emerge will emerge - but I am being transcendent about emergence. My learning journey cannot be defined by its size but by what emerges as learning for if I already know what that learning is, it most definitely is not learning but simply a kitsch tourists journey where we buy artifacts that we describe as learning. To become a traveler is to know the journey, where the only difference between a tourist and a traveler being the traveler accompanies themselves in a bigger journey of meaning. Otherwise a traveler is by all intents and purposes a tourist and it is fine being a tourist, for in reality we all are unless there is greater meaning to our journey.

🐝 Fatima G. Williams

🐝 Fatima G. Williams

4 years ago #33

Wow I had to read the comments of CityVP Manjit twice ; just to get my head around what he was saying and on understanding it I should say "My biggest journey of learning has just evolved" :) Thank you for the such intriguing comments.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

"I see transformation as that which is in our known power to effect or change within ourselves. Renaissance fits more with time sense in that what evolves may not evolve in our lifetime - but we have a time sense that the learning journey I call this, is a part of a bigger journey that has not unfolded or which has yet to evolve"- this is beauty CityVP Manjit

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #31

#41
Thanks CityVP Manjit for taking the time to expand on your ideas.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #30

#40
Very good observation Sara Jacobovici I do use the word Supernal as one of my personal energies and that itself is wrapped up in the idea of renaissance. In that transformation is a grounded experience and renaissance is that which is always out of reach such as trying reaching the horizon is. When we try to ground renaissance we can turn our thoughts into metaphysical ideas we and in that we lose the magic of origin. This much I understood when I listened to tapes from Joseph Campbell describing Mythos. This is where I want to shed the attachment of agree or disagree or even the social action of following and replace it with observation - utilizing Jiddu Krishnamurti's great observation "the observer is the observed". http://www.jiddu-krishnamurti.net/en/1945-1948-observer-is-observed/krishnamurti-the-observer-is-the-observed-46-06 This is also why I have now switched my view of mathematics as a method or subject of calculation to a way of being, a way of being that actually can describe beauty. What I am not doing is preaching renaissance or asking others to create a movement around it - because that is not a transformation, and what emerges as renaissance is what I control or seek to control. I see transformation as that which is in our known power to effect or change within ourselves. Renaissance fits more with time sense in that what evolves may not evolve in our lifetime - but we have a time sense that the learning journey I call this, is a part of a bigger journey that has not unfolded or which has yet to evolve. The supernal then becomes evolution and not a religion. We have seen through evolution whether it be how mankind has evolved or the mysteries of our DNA, that there is much that comes into being as evolution - again Joseph Campbell has shown the linkages how we create mythologies, but also how societies/civilizations have evolved.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #29

#38
I wonder if you ever experienced a difference between transformation and transcendence CityVP Manjit for highlighting Manjit's point of transformation occurring through silence. An important concept.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#38
As much as I agree with your sublime thoughts CityVP Manjit, I have a question. Isn't transformation of opinions a transformation? I am not negating all forms of transformation that you mentioned, but couldn't they extend to opinions as well? BTW I like your idea that silence may transform us.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #27

#25
Argument has a great purpose in discourse but personally I am not invested in the process of agreement or disagreement for my own learning journey, because the act of transformation in me is not the shape or size of my belief - but what transforms me. Sometimes a single word can have a transformative effect, sometimes simply looking at a picture on a box of cereal. Sometimes in recognizing I am agreeing with someone has a transformative effect because I have seen myself in the other and it is the mirroring in that and not the argument that transforms me. A belief system is a group principle, a group dynamic such as argument serves groups very well, but it is but one way of seeing or learning to see as an individual. Whether it is intellectual boxing or nuanced cognitive tennis, argument has the same rules as sport and that is understanding this game of life - thus why it has considerable importance, never mind that a university education conditions our cognitive approach that way when we were young. Transformation can occur through silence when it eradicates the lies we may tell ourselves or see through the kind of game the game of life is or whatever we profess that supports our profession. Why do people end up using the word BS, because there is nothing more challenging in life than to face our own truth. Sure argument requires skill and fortitude but it is not the be all or end all of who I am - but it is a great process as a group dynamic and the battle that we note when we say life is a game.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #26

#29
A great reminder Fatima Williams has mentioned in the past.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#35
Brilliant comment and great story Sara Jacobovici. As I have just uploaded part 2 titled "Love is to grow less" I find it very interesting how we tackle same issues differently. Your conclusions of the story are quite interesting. You remind me of chemical reactions and how outcomes change with slight changes in the process or reaction conditions. I wonder how processing your comment at another time would have led me to comment differently.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #24

As is evident from the flow of ideas from your readers Ali Anani, your Buzz has had quite an effect. "Molecules vibrate, our ideas vibrate and our opinions vibrate." The discussion about rocks and water reminded me of the biblical story of Moses and the water from the rock. Very briefly: First time Moses is instructed to take his staff and strike the rock so that water will come from the rock. The second time Moses is instructed to take his staff and, with his brother, go to the rock and speak to the rock so that water will come from it. But the second time, Moses raised his hand and struck the rock with his staff. Water still came out from the rock after striking the rock instead of speaking to it but Moses ended up being reprimand for not carry out his instructions. What I think I can get from this is that, although water came from the rock both times after being struck, it doesn't necessarily mean the outcome was the same. The other thing is that each circumstance, although involving similar needs, called for different methods; striking and talking. There is agreement and disagreement at every step of the process, with differing outcomes.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#33
I am writing the buzz now dear brother @Anees Zaidi. Will surely address your first comment here.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#31
I still believe your modifications tell that you are a poet Fatima Williams. When you try you shall discover

🐝 Fatima G. Williams

🐝 Fatima G. Williams

4 years ago #21

#30
Ali Anani I love poetry and have read alot and let me add that these are lines from the song and I simplify modified them to suit my comment. I'm sorry I should have mentioned that :( But nevertheless I shall give it try sooner or later.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Fatima Williams- do you write poetry- I wish you do. You are talented. Your last comment says so.

🐝 Fatima G. Williams

🐝 Fatima G. Williams

4 years ago #19

#27
I loved this song CityVP Manjit. Thank you for sharing it "I'm forever following/blowing bubbles Pretty Bubbles in the air They fly so high Nearly reach the Sky" As Ali Anani said the comments, each of you contribute is a bubble and readers like me use the bubbles, step on them very gently and use them to reach the Sky/our goals. These comments some are pretty and some are soapy but for readers like me they are pretty bubbles, like the one that gives joy to a little kid.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Great dear CityVP Manjit? Yes, I do and I search for this types of comments They are the waters as you said.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #17

#24
I look forward to reading this view albeit that my focus is not the same - my focus views comments as temporal where opinions are like bubbles as in the Doris Day song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6SXi4I47Qw where they do not converge to merge but diverge to emerge. Very few people are astronomers observing comments as comets and marvel ling at their property and direction. If we were learning from comments then that would yield learning media rather than social media - and you do create learning media. That you also do is our peculiarity but this is not a commonality in social media, for this is the road less traveled in which you additionally describe Type 4 Comments. http://www.slideshare.net/hudali15/cfakepathcomments-on-slide-share-their-mapping-and-value-added When I see your comet or the comet of Sara Jacobovici etc etc I know there will be in addition the generation of Type 4 comments. What I want is to develop Type 4 observation and that means reviewing the nature of my own comments as an emergence, whereas comments are valuable in your process because they are a fundamental mirror to your learning journey. Our approaches may have a different form and intent in direction but we share in the collective appreciation of value creation.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#25
- you asked "Not sure if you agree - but having everyone agree with everything we say means we aren't learning and 'stretching' so to speak". I DO agree and if I don't then this would mean I am always right. I am saying in the buzz opinions shall never fall in an ordered form because thee shall always be opposing ones. We learn from these difference and we keep the water (comments) running. If the comments are all in agreement then we have a polluted water to run. In simple words, I agree this time with you almost 100%, other times may be much less. But this is how we grow.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#23
Great insights CityVP Manjit I shall handle this issue in a different way in my next buzz. I am reading this " We are apt to say that the rocks in our life our our adversity, when in reality they are our intelligence". We make them more intelligent with water running through them. As you wrote later "Comments are simply water that flows over those rocks", I may also add running through them and not only over them. However, I have a different view in my next buzz on "amorphous or the crystalline" and I shall where that shall lead us to. I love challenging comments and this one is.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #14

In less than 3 minutes Alan Watts expresses much that we do not consider when he mentions that rocks are not dead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzdkkg1561M In the context of the amorphous we must also realize what we consider as hard. We are apt to say that the rocks in our life our our adversity, when in reality they are our intelligence. Then we can approach the amorphous or crystalline because we have been blessed to have arrived to that state. I am not a policeman in this world acting as a traffic cop between the most agreeable and the slightly disagreeable, I am a rock and not cooked spaghetti that once was uncooked spaghetti, where on closer inspection reveals the building blocks of life. Comments are simply water that flows over those rocks. It is what the water then contains which is important and not the erosion nor the amorphous or the crystalline - because then the amorphous is simply a state of mind we have cooked or not cooked, when the rock is who we are and how we came to be - whether as stardust or the Earth itself.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#21
Great comment and lovely feedback dear Fatima Williams my journey partner because of your name. I filled your cup with knowledge, but I hope to fill it also with my great admiration to you as a person and thinker. Fatima you quoted Anees " be it glassy, crystallized or amorphous...". Well, then wait for my next buzz and I shall respond in an unconventional way. See you soon, dear

🐝 Fatima G. Williams

🐝 Fatima G. Williams

4 years ago #12

Wow Ali Anani Thank you so much for being so kind-hearted and mentioning my name in this buzz. I am on top of the world and all smiles :) You are truly one of a kind " One that makes the fish in the pond wonder and get their head to use. This is a message for me to keep trying harder. The fractal effect is a new discovery for me, never had anyone explain something like this with such simplicity and interest and I am learning so much every-time I read your buzzes or anything related to this. The right way to say it is " I am filling my knowledge cup ". It's a glass cup in my imagination and I can see right through, the ideas and thought's I collect and I will build upon them. I agree with Anees Zaidi "An idea, be it glassy, crystallized or amorphous, if it helps others to find colors for their dreams is worth pursuing" You are one of my colors and I hope to pursue my dreams with your guidance.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#18
Yes, dear Anees Zaidi, but as trees are trees, nut not the same and so are brothers. You are a telepathy-mate and soulmate

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#16
I shall stop calling you brother Anees Zaidi as you are more than that. I have just commented on your last buzz and you moved me with its depth. Surely, I am referring to it in my next buzz.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#14
Dear brother Anees Zaidi- it is telepathy again and I am metamorphosed by your comment. My next buzz is titled "Love is to grow less". When I publish it you shall discover for yourself that my math is as simple as yours. Fractals grow from simple rules. Simple comments, simple maths, simple behaviors and simple ideas are the same. Love is to grow less so that others may grow more to realize their dreams. Your mind talks to mine always.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#12
Great you commented just again just now Max Carter and you both create new possibilities of seeing new perspectives. Yes, playing with metaphor does that and more.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#10
Yes, you are correct dear debasish majumder. Order comes from chaos and the amorphous state leads to ordered actions. Lack of predictability prompts us to find ways to predict. I read a book a while ago on why CA in the USA excelled in areas that MA state didn't and vce versa. In Boston where the weather is so unpredictable the drive was to predict weather, to forecast sales and so on. In CA it was the rare, but devastating earthquakes and to get out of this amorphous state CA excelled in risk management and software.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#5
Brian McKenzie- polymers include the biopolymers in our bodies. So, it is more of natural ones living in us

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#3
I agree Bill Stankiewicz brings a lovely metaphor. I like to see things from different perspectives and a good metaphor does that. I wrote many posts on water as a metaphor. In this case as ice gives one shape of crystals mostly I opted for the polymer metaphor. When we build chains of support with varying lengths I find the polymer metaphors rich. However; even in water impurities, music and other factors may change the quality of ice crystals.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#2
Bill Stankiewicz- great and I love your comment

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#1
Max Carter". A still pond will allow for the growth of bacteria and much more. It is interesting that you mention the pond as this was the metaphor for my e-book on "The Fish Pond- Management of Complexity". There is so much more to it.

Bill Stankiewicz, 🐝 Brand Ambassador

Hi Max Carter, you have some great thoughts here & I enjoy the way its depicted. The 3 states of water is a great analogy Max!! Best regards & thanks for sharing with the bees here. Bill Stankiewicz, www.savannahsupplychain.com

Bill Stankiewicz, 🐝 Brand Ambassador

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