We Plan and Destiny Laughs

We Plan and Destiny Laughs

I keep asking myself if planning has a real value! We humans are complex systems and our behaviors are complex too. The feedback mechanisms in our bodies are frequent and result in simple deterministic rules to turn into chaos. We are complex emotions and once we energize one emotion it can send us into paths that we haven't anticipated. The uncertainty Principle prevails. I feel we are like an electron if we try to locate its positions we change it because we energize it. In strategy, we say know where your position is to know where to go. But once we try to know our position we change it. Are we then chasing a shadow?

Small events may change our paths and send us orbiting chaotically in strange paths or attractors. A chaotic system has a strange attractor , aroundΒ which the system oscillates forever, never repeating itself or settling into a steady state of behavior. It never passes the same point twice. The structure of a strange attractor has fractal form, meaning the same patterns exist at every scale no matter how much we zoom into it. The structure of a strange attractor could have the shape of a butterfly wherein a minute change may send us from one wing of the butterfly to the other. All we know we are within the boundaries of the butterfly, but where exactly we don't know. You shall enjoy this video to see visually what I mean.


Let me explain more by real examples. I read recently the story of a football player who was driving his car in a heavy traffic to sign a contract with a new club of his choice. While driving, he received a phone call from Norwich Football Club (my favorite club being graduate of the University of East Anglia) offering him a contract. The player accepted the offer and changed his career path by driving to Norwich. All his planning changed because of the annoying heavy traffic.

I was flying back home from an Arab country in which I was invited for an interview. A businessman sat next to me on the plane. Soon we greeted each other and began talking. He asked me few questions and then mentioned that he was facing a challenging problem in his industrial plant. The conversation ended in me offering simple solutions. Upon landing and unable to refuse his invitation I ended changing my path accompanying the man to visit his plant. That day I signed a contract with him for two years which changed my career path. All my planning for the interview ended in doing what I have never planned for.

My brother was outstanding in math. He had a brilliant mind for it. He used to solve problems aimed for the tenth grade when he was in the sixth grade. Everybody expected him to be a successful engineer. One day he heard my other saying to my father that she wished one of her sons would be a medical doctor. My brother is now a famous MD. He changed his career path to please my mother even though she never planned for it or even knew till years later why my brother decided to change his study.

My eldest brother was a smoker. He wanted to quit so frequently that even before he had finished his intention he lit a new cigarette. His youngest son told him one day that if you would care for me you wouldn't smoke. You don't only hurt yourself, but also hurt my future. Since that day my brother became the most anti-smoking person you would meet.

Our lives seem to go orbiting around strange things that have the structure of a strange attractor. No matter how much we plan, destiny has its final word.

Do you agree?


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Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#99
The fork of bifurcation- yes, and we may fall in the land of great discovery. It is interesting your use of the word nexus Dale Masters because of the repeating patterns observed at different time scales.

Javier 🐝 CR

Javier 🐝 CR

4 years ago #80

#89
CityVP Manjit I agree! All of them are super bees! I love you all and most of them I would be happy if they become ambassadors too

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Thank you prabhakara rao rajarapu

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#92
I discussed the difference between destiny and fate in my next buzz The Honeycomb of Ideas. I love your saying "Destiny is an abstraction, it does not exist in reality. It is a mind game".

Randy Keho

Randy Keho

4 years ago #77

We're faced with change not destiny. In each of your examples, the person could have continued down the same path. They chose to change their plan. What you're labeling destiny is a conscience effort to change direction. You, and you alone, are in control of your future. Destiny is an abstraction, it does not exist in reality. It is a mind game.

Lisa Gallagher

Lisa Gallagher

4 years ago #76

#89
CityVP Manjit again, very wise comment. I sort of on break today from Social media- I tend to spend hours reading other's buzzes, reposting to beBee and twitter, and once in a while it can catch up with me. My brain feels tired today LOL. So my comment will probably reflect that even though I can't disagree with anything you wrote. Many of us do tend to migrate to some of the same people's buzzes over and over but for me it's because I enjoy their writing. I meet new people on here almost daily and find new buzzes to comment on, so I'd like to think that I'm trying to branch out. I'm sure we are all can be a bit tribal, some more than others. Something to keep in mind. Again, thank you!! I have great respect for all those you tagged below and many more!

Franci 🐝Eugenia Hoffman, beBee Brand Ambassador

Destiny, being an inevitable cause of events has no rules and no boundaries. Destiny has an uncanny way of altering our lives, which can be negative or positive. What is intriguing is while we on the ride of life and meet the fork in the road, our decision may be of no consequence because the plan has already been laid out for us. Whether right, wrong or indifferent, the real reason may never be known to us; it is only how we perceive it to be.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #74

#88
Dear Lisa, I did read the wolf-pack buzz and I am a great believer that it is tribalism that shapes destiny, because this form of destiny has repeatedly been shown to have been shaped through war. That conflict does not have to occur at the national level, it can happen at the media level or it can even happen in our own mind. When we wash destiny of all the bits that are uncomfortable and sterilize destiny into a utopian or noble ideal we get into the business of re-writing history. This brings me to the burning question which is, how can we study destiny at philosophical detail and yet continue to repeat the patterns of history, history constantly repeating itself? That is why I will push aside the question of destiny and deal with diversity first. In my 20 years of being on discussion groups, all have had the same pattern, they all become wolf-packs - which means what? It means that the same group people begin talking to the same group of people - and now one has insiders and outsiders. My destiny as seen from the lens of diversity remains a constant outsider. This outsider invites the outsiders in, not as insiders but people who can have the diversity of inside and outside - and then there is no wolf-pack - there is only diversity. My destiny depends on diversity - so does that of Javier beBee and the list goes on and on until diversity reaches my own Dunbar number or another new destiny.

Lisa Gallagher

Lisa Gallagher

4 years ago #73

#87
CityVP Manjit, I'm so sorry I missed your comment. You are a very wise man. I want to read your comment again so I can have a more detailed reply and thank you. When I read these posts and the comments on Ali's buzzes it opens my mind so much. I may not understand everything but that's where others can come in and help me to understand better. Thank you to Ali too!

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #72

#85
Dear Lisa, the D in Destiny is not the D in DNA, destiny is simply our capacity as human beings to reprogram our destination. Destiny has different kinds of fuel, some fueled by powerful imagination and some fueled by foolish fantasy. The one plus point of your anxiety order is that it proves you have a powerful imagination. The challenge this imagination gives you serves in you the thinking that creates great anxiety, but the same challenge of imagination allows you to want to change your destiny. You know what your compass is today, you know what your direction is and your imagination is now guiding you to a new destination, and you are not afraid of obtaining help and support to get to where you want to be. Those that have the courage to love as much as you do will feel hurt and pain at much greater level than those that talk of love but don't live their love fully. So we know that our imagination can move us to a new destination and it can also overwhelm us - of if we don't exhibit the courage of love, we choose foolish fantasy and we become like driftwood in the river. Yet none of this is the value of destiny. The greatest value of destiny is KNOW THAT WE HAVE ARRIVED and what that SETTLEMENT means. Otherwise our destiny is that of a nomad. At this moment in life it is as good as it gets, I have arrived and for the next three years I am not interested in destiny, unless someones destiny crashes into me or shit happens, which destroys the settlement. Once settled the children are safe, and they have the opportunity to live the life we did not, and that is what my parents did so the sacrifice was lesser for us. Yet what is the purpose of struggle if we never arrive. What is the purpose of destiny if it is continuous loop of never finding life.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#85
Dear Lisa Gallagher- your talk of the heart from the heart of experience says it so well in simple terms. SImplicity coupled with passionate experience make your comment very impacting and naturally impressive and believable. I feel every word you wrote.

Lisa Gallagher

Lisa Gallagher

4 years ago #70

Hi Ali Anani, so impressed with how the comments/discussion just flowed. Someone used the word, synchronicity- I agree. Very interesting to hear how the football players path took a turn because of traffic, your brother became a Dr. because your mom wanted someone in the family to become one and your brother quit smoking for his life and son. I do believe in destiny. I'm not sure how destiny finds us, or do we find it? But, I've seen it happen all too often which makes me really believe in it. I worked many hours per week at the hospital after I had my 2 children. I loved my work but hated leaving my kids with a babysitter. I dreamed of being a stay at home mom but never thought that would be an option. We struggled with 2 incomes. One day my husband came home from work and told me he had a job offer out of state. After some time of talking it over, we decided he should do it. We ended up in a smaller town (much smaller) and I was able to finally stay home with my kids. We didn't make a lot of extra money because the increase in wages my husband received made up for what I wasn't bringing in. It was SO worth it. I never saw myself living in a rural town or being able to stay home with my children, destiny? What was even stranger for me- I found out after we moved here my father used to hunt in the County I live in, it was always his dream to move to this area and I never knew until my mother told me after we settled in.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #69

#83
Proud to be mentioned in your comment Milos Djukic and in your style. I am grateful for the connection.

Milos Djukic

Milos Djukic

4 years ago #68

I've put all my knowledge (still very limited) into writing of this post and also into writing all of my further comments. Without false modesty, I admit that I am personally proud and also proud because of you dear participants: Ali Anani and Harvey Lloyd . Certainly, it's no easy task to talk about chaos. This way of commenting by all participants is the ultimate example of how it should be done proper critical thinking study on the topic of an utmost importance. Your comments and a balanced approach of all participants about this delicate subject is very close to me. Thank you very much dear Ali.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #67

#81
Dear Sara Jacobovici - Likewise.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #66

#80
A pleasure for me that our paths have crossed CityVP Manjit. Your journey has influenced positively on mine.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #65

#72
Dear Sara Jacobovici I highly value the way you look at the world because that is the meaning of diversity, and through the lens you utilize you are learning and what you learn contributes to the journey of your life - which we happen to call destiny. For my learning journey affords me to first qualify the reservations but not to prove my point but simply what shall proceed into my own field of attention and what must be put aside, since we both know that none of us can know it all. Quantum Consciousness Often means Nonsense by Matthew R. Francis http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/05/quantum_consciousness_physics_and_neuroscience_do_not_explain_one_another.html The Myth of Quantum Consciousness http://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-stenger/the-myth-of-quantum-consc_b_788798.html Skepticism is an interesting perspective because again, it is Milos Djukic posts which introduced me to the idea of "reproducibility" and when I INDIVIDUALLY study this it has a greater transforming effect because I am taking logical steps in my own learning journey. I have poor statistical thinking ability, I am prone to logical fallacies, I am not as creative as I should be in design thinking, I am trying to appreciate the engineering and scientific mindset and all of this is on a foundation that I do have the skills of abstraction and that this is the foundation stone for my learning journey. Destiny in my learning journey remains mythological.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Dear Milos Djukic- my mind is busy thinking about your comment and your linked post. I am planning to publish the latest on Saturday my response to your great buzz. So many ideas are rolling in my head that I have to find a way to structure my forthcoming post. But I tell you one thing- your buzz exhausted me mentally and it enriched my thinking. To differ with a wise man is to learn.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#77
I hope Deb Lange. I know this is true because my soul connected me with both of you

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #62

#74
Ali Anani: "Your soul knows the geography of your destiny. Trust it. It will take you where you need to go."

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #61

#73
At the risk of belabouring a point CityVP Manjit, the relationship between the pitcher and the batter is based on being on an equal "playing field". Just as it is the pitcher's role to strike out the batter, it is the role of the batter to hit a home run. Let's not forget or minimize the fact that the pitcher, too, has a turn up at bat.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#72
I posted my last comment before reading your comment dear Sara Jacobovici and I am moved by its depth. I find my comment in synchronicity with yours.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#73
I appreciate your comments dear CityVP Manjit and I take them seriously. Each comment of yours requires proper researching before responding. Before reading your last comment the idea of destiny as a science struck my mind. I Googled for Destiny as Science and so many references popped up. I am reading this now: Fate or destiny is often regarded as the β€œcourse that life takes” and karma is one of the factors that influence this course. People often believe that fate is pre-destined and nothing can be changed, but is this really true? β€œYour destiny is shaped according to the combination of conditions pre-determined at birth and other factors that you are able to change through your own efforts.” http://info.happy-science.org/2015/86/ What I am trying to say that your comments are so "fatty" that they demand effort to respond to and sometimes unfortunately time is not always at my disposal.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #58

#71
Dear Ali Anani is the state of researchers today and also articles he has pointed out about bad science. If destiny is to have any purposeful value then it is realize that destiny like the word culture is not something we create but based on what people believe. The underlying purpose of Milos's shares is to hope to shift the destiny of science, because where science is today is not a particularly good place. The engineering of direct communication between human beings will one day be technically feasible - so telepathy is being researched as a technology rather than a belief. In this Smithsonian article provides a proof of concept http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innovation/scientists-prove-that-telepathic-communication-is-within-reach-180952868/?no-ist What is not amazing is that researchers have the capability to explore this and that in turn leads to the creation of the amazing. We might not know who is capable of this innovation or when this innovation will transpire but we can deduce the gatekeepers of destiny. Using the metaphor of baseball that Sara Jacobovici applied in comment #58 - the value here is to catch the catcher, whose purpose is to take people out, not make them play better. The metaphor of the pitch is the moment, but the metaphor of the pitcher is striking people out. The researchers that Milos studies and talks about are being struck out, and not study the pitch.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #57

Dear CityVP Manjit, your comment holds all aspects of our cosmic DNA. Carl Sagan said, β€œThe nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” Science came from philosophy, psychology and all areas/disciplines trying to make sense of life, who we are and our place in the world and in relation to others. Belief systems are created and destroyed and enhanced and reduced. Destiny, from my perspective, is just as scientifically based as any quantum physics equation. American Dr Stuart Hameroff and British physicist Sir Roger Penrose have developed a quantum theory of consciousness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xeh001ptDgo You write, "Destiny does not laugh, we do; whether laughter is scientific reasoning or laughter is metaphor, myth shapes that laughter. " Exactly! We are the common denominator; we influence and are influenced, we shape and form and are shaped and formed by it all. I'm glad we are not omnipotent and all knowing. I find it much more interesting this way.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#70
SO many things are in the same boat dear CityVP Manjit. Telepathy is one example. Dreams are a second example. Dreams, which inspired many scientific ideas, are another example. SOmetimes science is to silence even doubts about things scientists don't believe in.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #55

#69
Dear Ali Anani scientific reasoning as a very important place in the development of awareness, but this buzz leads with a mythology called destiny. Destiny is not a science, it is the power of myth making. Yet even scientists who understand mythologies will talk of being spiritual while rejecting the non-scientific facets of organized religion. When a belief system is organized, power is given to it and when that power has a paternal history to it - then it has an equally powerful effect on the mythology of destiny. The question that flows through my mind is understanding the imbalances caused by the power of myth, and it certainly is not to create new mythologies. Cynthia Eller wrote about "The Myth of Matriarchal Prehistory" https://www.nytimes.com/books/first/e/eller-myth.html Scientists have used mythologies to shape its very culture and even shut people out of science, indeed look at the article of six overlooked female scientists who are not mythologies http://all-that-is-interesting.com/female-scientists I am not the expert on societal issues, none of us are - but I am a learner. If science can shape destiny and the traditional patriarchal, European centric bias has shaped science - then these mythologies in science today shape destiny. Destiny does not laugh, we do; whether laughter is scientific reasoning or laughter is metaphor, myth shapes that laughter. Should destiny ever have the last laugh because the human race is not here, then destiny is of no consequence - then we neither learn from mythos and we will have all collectively failed in science. If we are not that destiny, then what is?

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#66
I appreciate your experience and example dear CityVP Manjit. May be I am influenced by my tendency to find scientific reasoning which fits with my background. On societal issues you are the expert

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#65
Fascinating comment is yours Donald Grandy. Your reference to Carl Jung is wonderful and hits the nail on its head

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#64
We are on the same wavelength this time KenzieBrian McKenzie

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #51

#59
Dear Ali Anani I do not struggle with why religion and philosophy can culminate in nihilistic action because destiny has never been an integral flow. There is a great difference between societal order operating on patriarchal destiny than a societal order operating on matriarchal destiny. When the male priests saw that there was a means of control and power through a certain belief system or way of thinking, destiny manifests itself by transforming the flow of life. Once this flow of life was disturbed we created man-made destiny otherwise a supremely intelligent civilization would see how glaringly obvious the imbalance here is.

Donald 🐝 Grandy PN

Donald 🐝 Grandy PN

4 years ago #50

Fascinating post Ali Anani. Reminds me of Synchronicity as first explained by psychiatrist Carl Jung, which holds that events are "meaningful coincidences" if they occur with no causal relationship, yet seem to be meaningfully related. Thanks for sharing.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

ten a new ide- my keyboard again- I meant then an idea

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #48

#60
My point understood by you Ali Anani and your comment agreed by me. You are right to refer to curiosity in this discussion of knowing and being opened to sensing what is out there. We definitely want to incorporate curiosity within our boundaries of what is in our control, rather than use control to determine curiosity's boundaries.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#58
Thank you again Sara Jacobovici and "and to understand that a pitcher in the life of baseball is just a member of a team who is getting signals from the catcher". I am reading this post for a second time and in light of your comment I dare say you should find the same extremely valuable: https://playerdevelopmentproject.com/the-mystery-of-mindset/ I assure you that your involvement in these discussions have the highest value possible. You see we think we know (increasing our control), but ten a new ide is thrown that shakes our belief in what we know (less control) and we start a learning journey. This is the kind of journey that is endless and yet very exciting.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#57
I couldn't disagree with you Sara Jacobovici "If we concentrate on what we can know and not be frustrated with the fact that we can't know it all, would result in our having more control than we imagine". This is terrific; but I have question though. If what I know is different from what you know then I shall have more control if I keep or try to keep the discussion within this boundary. I need to open up a little at least to know from you. Too much control would reduce our imagination power and curiosity as well. The curiosity-control curve is bell-shaped meaning that no little control or too much control is very helpful. I hope I understood your important point right.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#56
Dear CityVP Manjit says I need a pausing time.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #44

Gentlemen, Ali Anani, thank you for your inspiring and profound discussion. I am fascinated to see the words and metaphors being used to describe the concepts of destiny in both your comments and paradise in Manjit's comments. I say fascinating because I can imagine the destiny you each describe and compare them to my sense of destiny at the same time. Parts overlap, while others don't connect. Existential questions are asked because we struggle to make sense of our experiences. Our struggle benefits from a wise heart, to think compassionately, and to understand that a pitcher in the life of baseball is just a member of a team who is getting signals from the catcher. Thank you for the opportunity to take part in this discussion.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #43

#52
Thank you Ali Anani for your response. I think there is a connection when I describe the need for us to be open to seeing and hearing what is out there and your description of the hidden. Isn't it only hidden when we can't see or hear it? From my perspective, I believe that what we are capable of sensing is out in plain sight. I would rather think of things as being beyond our capacity (in this state of being) to know. If we concentrate on what we can know and not be frustrated with the fact that we can't know it all, would result in our having more control than we imagine.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #42

#55
I can understand paradise much more than I can understand destiny. All my senses are attuned to paradise, for I can mentally conceive paradise, for it may emerge but it can only be an emergence. The irony is that those who believe in destiny may be the very one's who might be ruining paradise and thus ruining emergency. Paradise does not contemplate war but belief in destiny can promulgate possibility of war, tribalism, as well as conflicting religious conviction. At 2 years old there is no way that an evolving mindset kept me alive, it was a fear of losing a second son that kept me alive, just as it would not be at all welcomed to think that the first son left this Earth so I could fulfill my destiny. Carol Dweck has very good intellectual ability and her theories are helpful to parents but her theories do not make her a parent - for every mother or father who has lost a child, I will never speak of destiny but of compassion. That burden and weight of loss is a greater consideration whether we have a growth mindset or a fixed mindset. How do I know if I would have a growth mindset if I were to experience the loss of a child. I have not and do not. If there is resilience in this I do not know, if the soul is in turmoil, I have not experienced it. Destiny is not a fingerprint but as a curse it may transform us in the fire of adversity, and as a blessing it may weaken us to learned helplessness. There is no growth mindset or fixed mindset in the the most savage parts of the Congo - there is only survival and counting the cost of global indifference - and that we live in paradise compared to the people of Congo seems to go strangely amiss. Whatever our troubles, it dwarfs in comparison with genocide. http://worldwithoutgenocide.org/genocides-and-conflicts/congo What robs paradise is rooted in philosophies becoming greater than people.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#54
I happened to be reading this dear CityVP Manjit when I noticed a notification that you commented. I am reading "These ideas are founded on the work of world-renowned Stanford psychologist Carol Dweck. Dweck’s work has established the key differences between people with a β€˜fixed’ mindset and those with a β€˜growth’ mindset. People with a growth mindset seek out challenge and value failure, while people with a fixed mindset see challenge as threatening and avoid failure at all costs". Reference: https://playerdevelopmentproject.com/the-mystery-of-mindset/ You wrote in your very eloquent comment "I still cannot fathom destiny but I can fathom fear and I can never be sure where in all this fear has it's end and destiny has it's beginning". Does fear then depend on our mindset and regardless of other people being fearful? You bring a crucial point in your comment on how the emotions of others (your mother in this case) may cascade on us and affect our lives. Brilliantly expressed by you"My mother was influenced by loss, I was influenced by love". May be it is your evolving mindset that made the difference.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #40

#53
For my mothers first born son, destiny was indeed a curse, at 2 years of age, he became ill and my mother lost her son. My mother was protective of me as a result, the destiny of one flowing into another and she over-fed me to the point her clinic advised her out of due concern that she must not over-feed me. Then I too became ill as a baby and it is through that illness I lost all that weight. I survived. Now as I grew up is my destiny to focus on the curse or the blessing, for if I was given a choice in the matter, I would want my mothers first son to live for if their was a supernal will in this, the blessing I now have should be his. My mother was influenced by loss, I was influenced by love - if this is what we call destiny then so be it. Her prescribed destiny worked out for me for - the things she did not want to happen to me did not happen - yet other things still happened. I still cannot fathom destiny but I can fathom fear and I can never be sure where in all this fear has it's end and destiny has it's beginning.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#50
Dear CityVP Manjit. You wrote "If I know that I cannot fathom destiny then I am not going to prescribe destiny and I may move well beyond where prescribed destiny then takes me". If only you would read my responses to dear Sara

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#49
PART 2 Ys, Sara Sara Jacobovici- we have sometimes enough time to pause and make a choice. But what destiny hides is a different story together. But still we have a bigger choice- to accept because we aren't responsible for hidden fates. We have bigger choices when we think we don't have any. This is the paradox.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#49
Dear Sara Jacobovici- you are not only a great thinker, but also a mind-stirrer and memory-evoker. ALlow me to tell you a real story. We had a Christian neighbor. He had three daughters. He really wanted to have a son for many reasons, and one of them that he was the last male in his family. Even though his daughters were charming and intellect, he still desired a son. My father dreamt while having a short afternoon nap that the neighbor's wife would have a baby boy next time. Why he dreamt I believe because of the constant complaints of the neighbor. My father told the neighbor why and what he dreamt about. The neighbor decided to try his luck and he had a baby boy who was born on Ramadan's feast. The neighbor started celebrating Ramadan like Moslems. The boy grew up to be the perfect example of what a father would wish his son to be. He went to the USA to study. While returning home for vacation he was involved in a car accident and was killed.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #36

There is another kind of curve which is what life throws at us, here we sometimes use baseball metaphors like curve ball https://unreasonable.is/sometimes-life-throws-you-a-curveball/ The baseball metaphor is an interesting metaphor because it is about what life pitches you and here destiny is the pitcher i.e. that which throws the ball at you. The butterfly in Lorenz's Attractor is a metaphor. Very few of us go beyond the metaphor and see what Lorenz was saying in terms of the scientific mind https://www.technologyreview.com/s/422809/when-the-butterfly-effect-took-flight/ The metaphor we apply is the tiny differences that lead to major differences in how we individually learn. That is the important take away for me. Which metaphor we use, it could be a baseball metaphor, it could be butterfly metaphor is only as helpful as what we think destiny is. If I know that I cannot fathom destiny then I am not going to prescribe destiny and I may move well beyond where prescribed destiny then takes me. We also alter the destiny's of each other when we are really prescribing it because we end up sharing this prescription and the prescription we accept becomes the actual limitation we impose on destiny. Otherwise destiny is whatever it is and we are not shaping it as a prescribed limitation or in other words the butterfly effect is impossible for us to know. If we know very little about Lorenz we know very little about the Butterfly Effect, but we will know a lot more in comparison about destiny, because then that kind of destiny is like "Manifest Destiny" - a doctrine and not a freedom. http://nationalhumanitiescenter.org/tserve/nineteen/nkeyinfo/mandestiny.htm

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #35

Part 2/2 In terms of destiny laughing, God helps those who help themselves and free will I have one story and one quote. First the story: Theo was a hard working farmer and the sole support for his family. He was also a spiritual man who would pray weekly. As he was getting older and frightened that he would no longer be able to support his family, he turned to his prayers more aggressively and demanded; have i not lived a righteous life? Why deny me the monetary help I am seeking to allow my family to have all that we need? When all of a sudden a big booming voice called out and said, "Theo, do me a favour, buy a ticket." In other words, nothing wrong with collaborating to create opportunities. Second, the quote: Viktor Frankl writes, "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." For me that defines free will. What happens, or not, is not necessarily in our control but how we respond to it all, is in our control; our choice. My triad would be: being open to sensing what is happening; collaborating in order to create opportunities; being in the space of choosing between an occurrence and the response.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #34

Part 1/2 What a unique and inspiring opportunity to read your Buzz Ali Anani and the comments and discussion of your readers. For me a common element in all the examples you describe Dr. Ali is being open to receiving information; verbal and non-verbal or "seeing the signs". What if everything you're describing happened but in all cases the individual was closed to what he was seeing or hearing as a result of being closed to other things beside "the plan". Another scenario that could have played out is after being open to hearing and seeing, the original plan proved itself to be the right one after all. So all that experience would be seen as a way of confirming the original plan and you leave with a heightened sense of confidence that it will work out "as originally planned".

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

I am writing a buzz in response to the comment of dear friend Milos Djukic

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#45
A more wonderful comment Sara Jacobovici. You wrote attentively "It needs to be presented in a lecture type setting to be effective". Absolutely correct and in fact this is the first time I don't use it in a lecture. We do "play" with senses and direct one sense on the expense of the other. I used it when I was at school. I didn't like geography (not any more though) and I intended to make silly mistakes in language to divert the teacher from my guessed answers on the geography exams. You are very observant and your video observation is very correct.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #31

#4
Wonderful example Ali Anani of how we attend to expectations. Your instruction was to find the first "mistake". Our "hearing" overrides our "seeing" in this case. The eyes literally scan the words and look for the mistake in content rather than function. This link is a classic "Selective Attention" example. (It needs to be presented in a lecture type setting to be effective.) You ask your audience to watch the video and count how many times the players wearing white pass the ball. Then you ask them and you get different answers but then you ask about something else in the video and the vast majority had not observed it as a result of attending to what is expected of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGQmdoK_ZfY

ptharso castro

ptharso castro

4 years ago #30

OOps ... the paper is it http://www.slideshare.net/ptharso/the-origin-of-the-universe-and-the-essential-consciousness ...sorry

ptharso castro

ptharso castro

4 years ago #29

#38
@Ali Anani ... iΒ΄m using a Google translator so i think is better write in portuguese. See that link https://www.bebee.com/producer/@ptharso/talento-natural-nao-se-ensina-em-universidades to understand a little. This paper is in english and say the same in another design but not includes the chinese medicine ... in this document i join astrology and chinese medicine ... https://www.bebee.com/producer/@ptharso/balance-healing-astrology-chinese-medicine ... suppose you will have fun! It is a theory that can be proved by the model ... While the Model of Chinese Medicine translates the functioning of the body, Astrology explains how the mind and body relate dynamically.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

1.35K views- I don't believe it. My curiosity is at its maximum. beBee team- please check your views counter

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

1.35K views- I don't believe it. My curiosity st its maximum. beBee team- please check your views counetr

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#27
Yes, dear Tausif Mundrawala and your lovely personal story shows how little events may have dramatic effects on our lives. Thank you for sharing your personal story because we tend to trust them more.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#28
@ptharso castro- thank you for the link. Thanks to Google Translate I managed to understand the abstract. However; as I don't have a FB account I couldn't translate the whole post. The graph seems very interesting. I wonder if yoou could provide us with a summary in English and including the image. This shall be wonderful as it seems you have new thinking on this lovely topic.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#29
Dear Deb, it is the stabilizing effect that w observe and in which complex system finally end up with is the reason for me picking this particular video to embed in my buzz. So, your comment resonates strongly with me. I love it, to be more honest.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#30
Thank you dear Jeet Jeet Sarkar because we need to learn from each other and expand our horizons. Milos is a great thinker and his comment is serious. What is your opinion? I would love to hear from you

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#32
Dear David Navarro L\u00f3pez- this is a good example of statistical predictions that may hold true using your words): Log-periodic self-similarity: An emerging financial law? (PDF ... https://www.researchgate.net/.../46461813_Log-periodic_self-similarity_An_emerging_f... Official Full-Text Publication: Log-periodic self-similarity: An emerging financial ... The suggestion that financial dynamics may be governed by phenomena anal-.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#31
Dear Milos Djukic- my friend I define friendship as the right to differ and meanwhile get closer. I Have this feeling towards you. Your reference to your post is timely even though I am very familiar and in love of it. I think this post is your milestone. If I say I have a deterministic answer I shall be lying to myself. However; I wrote one time , and dear Vincenzo De Florio is aware of it, that in my belief self-similarity is an emerging property and it is a reward. In other words, I self-similarity emerges because it beautifies things and make the scaling of our efforts possible. In your post you wrote very correctly "Curiosity, mindfulness and imagination made people great". his s a great triad and I love it. There is feedback among them such as curiosity feeding back to imagination. What fractal shall emerge if any, is difficult to tell. The fact that it emerges negates its planning. There is a great study on "Self-organization and complexity in the natural sciences" by by F Heylighen and the study sows self-organization and complexity in the natural sciences ... studies the collective patterns emerging from many interacting components, ... space and time, have been widely used to study phenomena such as chaos. So, I do hope something emerges from our interactions because they expand our curiosity, imagination and mindfulness. In my post I may refer to curiosity of what happened being unimaginable and trying to absorb them with open mindfulness. So, where is the disagreement? I do hope you provide some clarification because I am fully open-minded to listen.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#25
Dear Anees Zaidi as it relates to this one.

David Navarro LΓ³pez

David Navarro LΓ³pez

4 years ago #19

#29
Deb Helfrich I love your words "Chaos may exist in the time frames we are used to inhabiting, but perhaps in the grander picture of humanity there are statistical predictions that hold true" . The trees sometimes avoids us to see the forest. Humans are too short minded to see the big scenario, so we like to think about concepts like fate, God, you name it, trying to find an explanation to the theoretical "Chaos", whilst there isn't any.

Milos Djukic

Milos Djukic

4 years ago #18

Dear Ali Anani, my friend, this time I do not agree with you .Remember that you must at all costs remain self-similar. "Fear of chaos. It is our fear of uncertainty of each new day. The eternal struggle with transience of human life and permanent striving toward eternity. It is also, confirmation of our limitations, fear of disorder and reconciliation with the awareness of ignorance. It is also very important to design additional self-similar details (fractal patterns), through fruitful communication with like-minded people. In this way, we reshape the infinity of ignorance. This activity brings immense joy to every participant. In this special case, Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle (not β€œPrincipal”) could be defined as: .... The more you can define your self-similarity, more you can define yourself. This is paradoxical observation and the negation of the principle (no more more-less causality). Again, we have discrepancy between the macro and the micro world. And this is the original: .... The more precisely the position is determined, the less precisely the momentum is known in this instant, and vice versa." - Werner Karl Heisenberg (1927) The principle of self-similarity is still in development." - from "The Secret Human Qualities That Truly Matter", ;LinkedIn long-form post (Link: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20141201193542-248021126-the-secret-human-qualities-that-truly-matter?trk=pulse_spock-articles)

ptharso castro

ptharso castro

4 years ago #17

#18
I like too much of this issue and I created a method of "Vocational and Health" evaluation based on Millenary Sciences. My strongest example is Bill Gates and can be seen at this link . The key words of Bill Gates are just three: Search, Appear and Decide ... A very consistent diagram that shows the trajectory of Bill Gates. People only believe when they study themself. I would very much like to show this study to the Scientific World ... See by yourself -> https://www.facebook.com/talentonaturalconsultoria/photos/pb.517428435075055.-2207520000.1471375668./593759390775292/?type=3&theater ...

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#20
#22 Very mature attitude dar Anees Zaidi? I am grateful for your sharing it in the Debate Hive and I am open to all contrasting opinions. Life has taken us into different paths and I expect therefore different opinions

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#19
Graham Edwards- I greatly appreciate your balanced response. Yes, sometimes things move smoothly and in these cases our planning works. However; I wish to add an example. A farmer does all what is necessary. He plans the rotation of crops, when to add fertilizers, when to plant and all what is required by him. His crops flowers and it is almost summer time. All of a sudden and out of nowhere a strong wind blows and it blows away his flowers. Yes, planning is useful, but who knows what paths things go? Does this provide an example of your sound writing "The habit of planning and action better prepared you for the those days when destiny decides to have some fun"

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

4 years ago #14

#20
@Peter Van Doorn I would say yes we do have free will. Free will intersects with the free will of others. This is where the Chaos begins. I can make a choice but the path may not be the path to the outcome I start with. People make the complexity by having different/unique free will choices. Managing through the choices presented from Chaos is wisdom. Most describe Chaos as a symptom of........(Education, upbringing or environment) However life is Chaos. When we see this as a part of life then we can begin to change how we manage ourselves within. To judge or ignore Chaos is to discount others and their journey at and where you intersect with them. I do believe you can predict an outcome and to some degree develop a framework of meeting the outcome. But you also have to know that with Chaos the framework will evolve as will you. I find way to many folks who are stuck on the plan and not the outcome. You may develop a plan to increase production, but subsequent meetings and knowledge development show you a new product that will achieve the same goal at half the cost. Would you see this opportunity if you were not looking at Chaos as creative? Chaos in most instances represent opportunity. Free will is a given. The price is paid when we overlook the creative aspects we had not considered, when presented with Chaos to the original framework. The most powerful phrase in our arsenal is "No Deal". This is something we carry with us and have for use in any framework/time/situation. Unfortunately many see Chaos as anxiety and float the phrase out at the first sign. When I see Chaos I know I am getting close to the right choice. But reserve the right to implement "No Deal" up to the point I jump off the cliff. If time permits and Chaos visits allow it run, watch it closely and know that you can say no deal at anytime. Who knows, that intersection of others may shed light on something you haven't yet considered.

Graham🐝 Edwards

Graham🐝 Edwards

4 years ago #13

Thanks for the buzz Ali Anani. I think you have to plan because they initiate action and things happen. I totally agree destiny (the universe for me) does have a habit of getting involved and you never where it will take you. The habit of planning and action better prepared you for the those days when destiny decides to have some fun.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#16
I respect your decision not to agree @ptharso castro. May be deterministic chaos is at play. You are luckier than I. May be you wish to share one example or two here. My experiences threw me in paths that I never planned for.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

I respect your decision not to agree @ptharso castro. May be deterministic chaos is at play. You are luckier than I. May be you wish to share one example or two here. My experiences threw me in paths hat I never planned for.

ptharso castro

ptharso castro

4 years ago #10

I cannot agree! Nature is not a chaos ... She have plans! She is organized and flows an evolutionary way in principles already detected by Millenary Sciences. Scientists forgive me but they are totally wrong in relation to the knowledge of antiquity. To illustrate what I say see these posts... and see anothers posts in this site. https://www.bebee.com/producer/@ptharso/modelo-tridimensional-da-consciencia-humana https://www.bebee.com/producer/@ptharso/balance-healing-astrology-chinese-medicine

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#14
This is a powerful statement "In the end the well being of humans is the ultimate goal, regardless of the path chosen,Harvey Lloyd. Yes, we need to try, err and learn with good faith

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

4 years ago #8

#9
I agree. The nature of humanity is for each to make sense of their path. More importantly it is important to know that the path is Chaos. No straight lines. Unfortunately it appears many groups are trying to unwind the strings of Chaos. Certainly a task, but I suggest that it maybe unwise to do so. In the end the well being of humans is the ultimate goal, regardless of the path chosen. Unwinding Chaos is fruitless unless we develop a pill that lets us live for thousands of years.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#10
My life story fits very well with your last line of your comment Peter Peter van Doorn. My life is mostly a reflection of your comment. I appreciate your comment and it deserves the reader's attention.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#11
Yes dear debasish majumder- Sometimes a small though may send us to lands we have never dreamed of visiting. Thank you so much for your beautiful expressions and they are creatively metamorphic.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

You bring a hugely important point in your comment Harvey Lloyd. Control versus faith within- I agree. In complexity, control is our of question and those who try to control will find progressively that they control less. Again, your pair of control versus influence is spot on. We influence our minds, but with the realization that things could go in a different path. I think it is worthy to compare the two pairs control versus influence and control versus faith in self. I see faith in self feeds back to mind influence. What do you think, Harvey?

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

4 years ago #4

Excellent video, thanks for posting @Ali Anani. Chaos is an interesting topic of discussion and more importantly understanding. I believe Chaos is ever present and that each of us must choose to control it or have faith within. Those who choose control seem to fight and stress over complexity, those who have faith that they can meet the Chaos with wisdom and expectation live happier lives. This also brings to mind influence over control. Influence tends to mind the Chaos where control always seems to be an upstream swim, lots of effort with not much gain. Yes, I do agree that destiny has its own mind and the more we fight that destiny the shorter/stressful our life.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#3
Law of Affinity and I have to bring this to the attention f dear Javier beBee. Affinity hives or affinity that brought you and I closer. I don't know, but seeing how in complex systems paths change with very little efforts, I find myself at least moving from path to another without any intention. Is that because of the Law of affinity? It could be in part, but you give me some food for thought.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#1
I couldn't stop smiling reading your comment dear David Navarro L\u00f3pez can solve this paradox.

David Navarro LΓ³pez

David Navarro LΓ³pez

4 years ago #1

You are terribly right that "we plan and destiny Laughs", and "No matter how much we plan, destiny has its final word." It comes to my mind a joke, on which a man used to yell in a very busy street, everyday at rush hour, dressed with very flamboyant clothes. When asked why did he do it, he said, "to keep rose elephants out of the way" When people laughed about it, he answered" You see any?....Ok, then i am doing a good work" Futility of human efforts to dominate his own destiny is as ridiculous as the mentioned joke. But no human is ready to accept it, as it would mean to assume we are not free at all.

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