Choices of no return point

Choices of no return point

In analogy with points of no return, I titled this post choices of no return. Wikipedia defines points of no return as β€œis theΒ pointΒ beyond which one must continue on one's current course of action because turning back is dangerous”. I find that finding creative ideas that put the intended people in a place where they have no choice, but to accept the” offer” presented to them.

I heard a real story last night that prompted me with the idea of this buzz. It is a real story. A wife her husband fully. She never doubted his actions or intentions. One night the husband returned home very tired and fell asleep like a log. His mobile kept making noises alerting for new messages. She decided to mute the phone. Upon reaching the phone her eyes met a new message with a huge kiss from a lady to her husband. She knew the lady and, sadly, was one of her closest friends. Now, curiosity started to act. The wife screened the messages and to her dismay her husband was tired because of the β€œeffort” he did with the betraying friend.

The wife kept her nerves and decided to take revenge. For few days she kept silent and acted as normal. She came up with a creative idea to revenge. Her family with many other families formed a participationΒ group. Each family will deposit one hundred dollars monthly. The collected amount will go for one of the participating families in turn. The wife was charged to collect the money and keep at home for distribution to the assigned family. On that day she invited all the participating families for dinner and including her betraying friend. Upon finishing the dinner, it was time to give the collected money to the assigned family. The host wife went in and then started screaming that the purse with the money disappeared. She insisted that the purse was lost only few minutes ago. One of the guests said that they had no option but to search each person. They all agreed. The surprise was that the purse was found in the handbag of the betraying friend. She started screaming. The wife then whispered to her β€œeither you shut up or I shall show everybody your messages to my husband. I put the purse in your handbag. Who would believe you that you aren’t a thief when you tried stealing my husband? The betraying lady was silenced as she reached her choice of no return point.

The story above reminds me of Michael Crichton using the Small Penis Rule. This writer Crichton decided to revenge a critic by creating an appalling character in his next novel that is very similar to the critic, but with one claim that the character had a small penis. By doing that the author put his critique in a corner. The character resembled him, but differed in having a small penis. The critic preferred to keep silent rather than saying he has a small penis. One way ahead, accept to swallow the pain.

I know of a lady who revenged by retrieving files from the broken and discarded computer of her husband. She started publishing his files from his repaired computer using his name in revenge for cheating her with his secretary. The husband had no choice but to divorce the wife and pay her a handsome amount of money to stop publishing the files.

Beware- new technologies have opened many doors to creative revenge. Small mistakes could have a butterfly effect in a creative person’s mind that cost the victim very little, but very costly to the predator.

I am sure you have a story to share if you wish.


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Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#106
πŸ˜†πŸ˜€ I am glad you enjoy the "painting" dear Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #102

@AliAnani~ thank you for painting in my poem ;~) "floating in a ship with schools of fish surrounding me peacefully" This Ali ... the best of "bee-banter ;~)

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#104
Fay Vietmeier Fay- told you you have a vivid imagination and I feel myself floating in a ship with schools of fish surrounding me peacefully. I look forward to reading your poem. The sea water would be sweetened by your gratitude and appreciation for others. Keep sailing

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #100

@AliAnani Oh Ali~ you do possess the "level of my fate" "Just believe ... and receive" I had a thought this morning about "I dream of flying" ... which I will with God's help convey in poem or post I was "flying" just as me ... hovering over the earth and seeing all those I love ... and many other things You were as a ship (not a "balloon") .... floating in the air ... carrying all those you love inside It was very beautiful ... even profound ... I hope even prophetic if not prescient I'm not sure what it means but it was beautiful ... and peace-full

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#102
Fay Vietmeier Hi Fay- do you have a needle so that I may puncture the balloon? I wish I had your level of fate. The more I read your comments, the more i feel the peace you have in your heart.

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #98

@AliAnani Ali~ do not float away oh "small balloon" the "treasure" that is in the "jar of clay" can indeed "behave like "diamonds" ... when our hearts love the right things ... our actions & behavior will follow & love will be reflected which as are diamonds precious & radiant it is written: "those who look to the Lord ... their face is radiant"

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #97

Pascal Derrien Pascal~ In your reading: of books about Auschwitz ... have your read The Hiding Place by Corrie TenBoom? Her family suffered greatly even to death ... yet she "forgave" Many years after her surviving the RavensbrΓΌck concentration camp (where Corrie's sister Betsie died in 1944) Corrie came face to face with one of the camp's guards (he had become a Christian) ... the man ask her forgiveness. In that moment ... her heart was conflicted (could she choose to "forgive" the brutality of what she, her sister and so many others endured in that camp?) The telling of her struggle in those split seconds is very powerful ... one could say "a point of no return" Corrie says of forgiveness: "I discovered that it is not on our forgiveness any more than on our goodness that the world’s healing hinges, but on His. When He tells us to love our enemies, He gives along with the command, the love itself." It is my personal belief that the ability to love the "unlovely" is only of God ... God's love in your heart ... makes possible the forgiving Yet ... it always a "choice"

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#99
Interesting search John Rylance. I believe attitude and character have a role here to determine our acceptance of the sweet facts even though they may taste bitter.Which is a better choice sweet lie or a bitter fact? Hood question and is worthy of searching.

John Rylance

John Rylance

1 year ago #95

I did a search for quotes no specifically for bitter choices, but bitter pills. A recurring theme was that Truth was the bitter pill we had to learn to swallow. Perhaps bitter choices are those we have to come to terms with. Do we often make the right choices for the wrong reasons, and conversely the wrong choices (for us) for the right reasons (for others)

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#96
Just a thought that popped up, Pascal. Do we consider bitter choices the same way we consider sweet ones? We may go for a bitter choice, but is this really a choice? Like a sick person taking a bitter bill. Are forced choices teal choices?

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#96
Yes, I agree and the question how many people have this "will of iron? Great ideas this one and thanks Pascal for your illumination.

Pascal Derrien

Pascal Derrien

1 year ago #92

#95
there is always a choice I read a few powerful books about Auschwitz this year some β€œvictims β€œ made the choice not to be victims despite the grim outcome we got to remember that the finality does not define the intent ...

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#94
Sure, and that is a possibility among others. However'in the revenge story in the post the wife left no choices and this is the effect of revenge rather than offering turning points; it offered no choice other than accept the retaliation.

Pascal Derrien

Pascal Derrien

1 year ago #90

I would offer turning point as an alternative

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#90
Fay Vietmeier Hi Fay, You always write challenges comments such as "My word would be β€œover-whelmed” (rather than "frustrated")". I am amazed because in spite of many people wrote about frustration only few saw it as overwhelming. The point is too much of anything is simply too much and may lead to frustration. I discussed thid this over=flow in few of my buzzes.For example, being overwhelmed by love may cause me to feel ownership of the beloved one leading to jealousy and/or control. This shall lead to the frustration of the beloved one and s/h might walk away. I smiled reading "we truly are that β€œjar of clay”. You know I wrote a presentation on same idea. I asked in it if humans who are essentially formed clay may behave like diamond. You enriched my day with your comment and compliment. I am "inflated" like a small balloon.

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #88

@AliAnani I can say with honesty that you are the β€œbest of iron” … it is funny that you mentioned a β€œcup of coffee” … that very thought went through my mind today ;~) I envision that everybody left the patio and you & I are left sitting there enjoying bee-ing together and sipping coffee ;~) ... IDEAS buzzing from our brains ;~) β€œDifficult challenges” usually take time to resolve … process of resolution often can’t be rushed If anything β€œdifficult challenges” are teaching me patience Also I’ve learned to ask God β€œwhat lessons do you have for me to learn in this difficult time” … it was not always so … I am learning … My word would be β€œover-whelmed” (rather than "frustrated") … when many things β€œpress in” or call for my time & attention I too often let things go to write and I have a challenge focusing on one writing at a time because so many things give me inspiration. Also subjects-topics-ideas can cross over and multiply in inspiration. Is it not truly wonderful the way God has created human beings (spirit-soul-body) … we truly are that β€œjar of clay” … filled with complex β€œtreasure” "Putting order" ... this I very much need

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#88
Fay Vietmeier Fay, you returned my smile with a bigger smile. I am currently drafting the post on crowded ideas that keep piling up in our minds. I wonder what you feel when you keep adding ideas? Do you feel frustrated sometimes? I do, but this frustration is a great source of creativity. I shall explain by examples in my next post. You are a great reader as evidenced by your great quotes. One day I hope to have a cup of coffee with you. Yes, you mentioned challenges. Difficult challenges may take time to resolve leading to frustration. This is why I asked you if you feel frustrated sometimes. I feel the challenge now trying to respond to your quality comment with a sensible one. keep your hopes.

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #86

@AliAnani Ali~ Your words brought a smile to this bees heart ;~) What you say about "challenges & character" reminded me of this passage in Romans 5: ... "we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance ... perseverance, character ... and character, hope. I have found this to be true in my own life Challenges come to everyone ... it is the response that determines character "Circumstances do not make a man they reveal him" ~ Epictetus No person wants to "suffer" ... but if the heart response to challenges is to "persevere" ... character will be produced You previously stated that "shallowness spreads" ... though many perceive the "EASY" path as desirable ... the result of that would be "shallowness" "All sunshine makes a desert" ~ an Arabian Proverb

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Fay Vietmeier Hi Fay, I decided too write my next post on the issue of being a "well-spring spirit of ideas". Thank you for the inspiration

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#84
I just remembered my earlier post on "Our choices capacity" https://www.bebee.com/producer/@ali-anani/our-choices-capacity I thank Fay Vietmeier- I explained in this buzz myself better.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#84
Fay Vietmeier I am glad I made myself clear dear Fay. You are the queen of the colony. Being a "well=spring spirit" your fountain of ideas flows. The more ideas, the greater the challenge and need to be creative to put them in order. But genuine characters as your grow with challenges. There is a law called the law of large numbers. You are in the domain of this law my friend.

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #82

@AliAnani Ali~ I love your responsive & sensitive spirit Thank you for lending clarity β€¦β€œputting in order” where there is complexity … that is assuring to my sensitive bee heart ;~) You truly do have β€œambassador” qualities ;~) … and are without question the β€œbest of bees” If we ever get to choose a king in the colony … I would be advocating for you ;~)

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#82
+Complexity leading to putting a person,organization or any other system results from having too many interacting ideas that relate to each other.We call this sometimes tension creativity. I didn't mean any bad thing dear Fay Vietmeier and in fact I meant complimenting you and your rave mind. Being a "well-spring spirit" you may create many ideas and that putting in order is the complexity that I meant. You know very well of my deep respect to your mind and heart. You are an exceptional human being.

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #80

@AliAnani ... thank you for your encouragement To clarify: may it NEVER be ... that I have "chaos" in my head (to me ... this reflects confusion & darkness) Nor to "Baffle" ... if that means confuse (I disdain confusion & its author) My objective in writing is to share human opinion in a meaningful, Light-imparting way: perhaps inspiring ... perhaps thought provoking way ... adhering as close as possible to my understanding of (& continual search for) Knowledge, Wisdom & Truth I much prefer dipping into my "well-spring" spirit for ideas & clarity ... and the right words

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#79
Dear Fay Vietmeier- I am sure out of the chaos of many ideas "playing soccer and chaos" in your head great ideas shall emerge. Yes, you are on the edge of creativity and I am sure you shall baffle us soon with some great posts. Harvey Lloyd will surely appreciate your synopsis of their gem comments. I published today a new buzz. I gave an old Arab story and I think the story shall enlighten you with more ideas. https://www.bebee.com/producer/@ali-anani/the-global-warming-of-self#c10

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #78

David Navarro L\u00f3pez It has been said that β€œtime heals all wounds”… assuredly β€œtime” will reveal all TRUTH β€œTime is the great equalizer” … I have written about this and will soon share

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #77

@AliAnani Harvey Lloyd David Navarro L\u00f3pez I must stop hanging out with you gentlemen ;~) … I’m am unendingly inspired by your responses in this post and have added yet another β€œdraft” to my (growing longer) list of things to write about & respond to. As Shakespeare would say: β€œI can no other answer make but thanks & thanks & ever THANKS” Unlike @AliAnani … it seems to take me much longer to set forth my ideas & arrive @ the desired destination of my pen (I wish for: a secretary, a maid, a gardener, a handyman an accountant, and a business developer…or the required income to provide them … then I could write to my heart’s content ;~) @AliAnani β€œwhat is the difference between forgiveness and tolerance?” this is worthy of prayerful thought & more words than I can offer here ;~) @HarveyLloyd … your words reveal your wisdom & understanding: β€’ Tolerance is the acceptance of being unequally yoked. β€’ Tolerance is when we don't share virtue or values β€’ Tolerance has been weaponized to thrash those who have a different set of values, than the person wanting something from them. It is difficult to weaponize forgiveness. It requires humility and an understanding of shared values. The wisdom & character of @DavidNavarroLopez revealed: β€œIf someone has done a filthy thing to me, it doesn't mean I will feel better if I taint my hands doing a filthy thing in return, even If I had the "right" to do it. And, it puts me (and the situation) into a no return point Time has proven to be the best avenger.”

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #76

#69
David Navarro L\u00f3pez Thanks David for sharing that well-inserted post on "forging" ... I am reading & will respond there

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#76
Very-well expressed comment Marisa Fonseca Diniz. I do like your short, but very accurate and reflective comments.

Marisa Fonseca Diniz

Marisa Fonseca Diniz

1 year ago #74

Revenge has never been a clever attitude because it poisons people's hearts and brings various evils to those who apply it.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#74
Do we need either?

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#72
Superb comment Ren\u00e9e \ud83d\udc1d Cormier and revenge is poison. This is very true. It poisons our feelings, our thoughts and our actions. Thank you for stopping by and sharing your wisdom. I encourage readers of this post to read yours as well. What you commented here is the core thesis of your buzz with great explanations.

Renée 🐝 Cormier

Renée 🐝 Cormier

1 year ago #71

The problem with revenge is that it is driven completely by pain and it never soothes the pain. Revenge just continues to add fuel to one's sense of victimhood and only perpetuates misery. I'll bet the wife talked about the wrong she was dealt and her triumph over her friend for a long time after. In fact, I would even say she continues to stew in the poison of her experience and relives it constantly. Why deny yourself happiness? Is anyone worth that? My post is a very nice segue to yours Ali. Thank you for giving me the link. If anyone wants to check out my post on harnessing the power of forgiveness, here it is. https://www.bebee.com/producer/@renee-cormier/harness-the-power-of-forgiveness

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#69
Just to highlight the name of Fay Vietmeier.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#69
I recall this post and it is spectacular.

David Navarro LΓ³pez

David Navarro LΓ³pez

1 year ago #68

#49
Dear Fay, concerning to this point of "heaping coals", I wrote some time ago something quite similar, using the same principle. Enjoy it https://www.bebee.com/producer/@david-navarro-lopez/melting-hostility-an-ancient-forging-procedure

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#67
The problem I experienced last week is that I bought an item after asking few questions and the seller responded by demonstrating the product. He did to my satisfaction. Three days later the item stopped functioning properly and it turned out that the durability of the product is a very short-term one. Yes, it functioned well upon buying it, but it proved its real value only after using it.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #66

#66
When you are of the thought that my purchase did not meet the expectation of money paid.....We see this is marketing overan engineering. Marketing can not ever market that which does not exist. When being marketed to, just ask a few questions that would define the engineering of what is being marketed. The response should be as great in detail as the marketing. Never buy a product/service from someone who cant explain it to "your" satisfaction.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#64
Just smilingπŸ˜„ reading this "I see money as emergent. It emerges from a set of values between product/service, customers, employees and vendors. If you see money as fundamental then we will always have conflict", What if I find that the money I paid is well-above the real value of my purchase. Cheating is one example for "distorting" the value of money.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#63
After addressing the question to you Harvey Lloyd I Googled for the differences between tolerance and forgiveness. I must say none of the many references I read was close to your in its clarity and comprehension. I truly believe that you may consider publishing your comment in an expanded post because literature is obscure on this topic. I also believe your response ties up well with the the notation tolerance level. Once we step out of this level we are back to where we started. I am writing this before reading your following comment just to make sure that I am not influenced by your response. I thoroughly enjoyed reading "Forgiveness on the other hand is a shared value that we want to keep true in our actions, but we fall short. When we fall short the way back is forgiveness. But we must have a shared place of value to get back too". You said that I asked you a great question; greater is your educated response.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #63

#61
From a result perspective i agree. But when we look at forgiveness it is the recognition of a shared value that has been transgressed. Accepting someone's request for forgiveness is the recognition that next time it will be me that transgresses the shared value. Amazingly tolerance is generally what you wrote. But tolerance also includes the absurd notion that we can work together under this banner and not share virtues or values. In the extreme i would be able to state that i could tolerate Hitler and work with him, even though we don't share virtues or values. Sounds extreme, but when we have tolerated unequally with people or groups and lost, it's how we feel, betrayed. Tolerance is good in the front end as we attempt to find common values that we can agree on. But if we can't find this, then i must move on. This doesn't mean that who i left is bad. It only means that while i fight for one virtue within our goals you seek another. This will only lead to conflict. I see money as emergent. It emerges from a set of values between product/service, customers, employees and vendors. If you see money as fundamental then we will always have conflict.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #62

#57
I have been giving some thought to the two very different thoughts, but i can certainly see how we have tied the two together. From my perspective and understanding the two are quite different. They both emanate from virtue or values one holds. When we share a value and i have stepped "out of line" i seek forgiveness for the transgression of the value. Tolerance is when we don't share virtue or values, they may be similar but opposite in action, i give you a pass and you give me one. We don't forgive each other for having different values we tolerate each other. Tolerance though has a way of being executed only when it benifits one or both parties. We can share a winning outcome even though we don't share the same values. Eventually one of the parties who have agreed to tolerance becomes a loser. Tolerance is quickly thrown out the door and the loser wants to talk about values. Tolerance is the acceptance of being unequally yoked. Forgiveness on the other hand is a shared value that we want to keep true in our actions, but we fall short. When we fall short the way back is forgiveness. But we must have a shared place of value to get back too. Great question in today's discussion of tolerance. Tolerance has been weaponized to thrash those who have a different set of values, than the person wanting something from them. It is difficult to weaponize forgiveness. It requires humility and an understanding of shared values.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#61
This is an interesting comment John Rylance, In my next post i shall give a story that explains your comment very well. Two points remain. First, tolerate and keep the pain. This is harmful and overtime may hurt more than the action that caused the pain. Second, we talk in environmental science and statistics, among others, about the tolerance limit defining the upper and lower limits for tolerating a factor such as the upper limit of a pollutant. Maybe we may extend the same to human tolerance. Forgiveness may not need such definition as "the forgiveness level because it is an extreme of forgiving. Harvey Lloyd- I draw your attention to these comments.

John Rylance

John Rylance

1 year ago #60

#57
Forgiveness is voicing your displeasure, and bringing the matter to a close Tolerance is saying nothing, grinning and bearing it, and quietly letting it fester away and letting the "hurt" continue.

John Rylance

John Rylance

1 year ago #59

#57
I suggest that forgiveness is voicing your displeasure, saying why you are annoyed, and applying the like you, but not what you have just done/

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Great and have safe drive to work. πŸš— πŸ›£οΈ

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #57

#57
Wow! A tough question for my Monday drive to work. If time permits this morning i want to reply. I will give careful thought to your deep question. Thanks for the food of thought.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Harvey Lloydp what is the difference between forgiveness and tolerance? 🧐

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#55
πŸ€£πŸ˜‚πŸ˜¨

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #54

#37
Insomnia πŸ€ͺ

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#53
#53 As the prevailing wisdom says "Forgive,but don't forget". Is this paradoxical? Thanks for your sharing the post Franci\ud83d\udc1dEugenia Hoffman, beBee Brand Ambassador

Franci 🐝Eugenia Hoffman, beBee Brand Ambassador

Oh, sweet revenge. And perhaps, the bad deed was forgiven but was it forgotten?

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#51
This is a good example of that the reverse isn't always true or equal. Thanks for it, John.

John Rylance

John Rylance

1 year ago #50

#50
I agree. I've always tried with the people I care about to show by my words/actions that I like them but I don't always like what they say/do.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#49
You can "love the doer and hate the deed"- I love this hating the deed and not the doer. Thank you Fay Vietmeier will enjoy your response as well. It is the best of the two- loving the deed and the doer. What else could we ask for?

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #48

#38
@AliAnani~ Ali~ thank you for sharing the story of the "two friends who were poor" and journeyed to another land They had each other ... friendship is its own wealth ... I'm glad that story ended well ;~) David Navarro L\u00f3pez Your words reveal your wisdom & character "Revenge is mine says the Lord" Even if "justified" ... acts of revenge create double prisons: one for the person who acted wrongly and one for the person acting in "revenge" Responding with kindness & forgiveness is like "heaping coals" on the head of the person who deserves to be punished This wisdom is in Scripture Not that our motive in kindness or forgiveness should be that of "heaping coals" on anyone's head ;~) By forgiving I set myself free ... "Forgiving" does not mean approving the wrong-doing it means releasing the debt of the wrong-doing You can "love the doer and hate the deed" That is why the grace of God is so lovely: he does not give us what we "deserve" ... rather Grace

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#46
So many ideas are pouring in my mind about this topic which I shall share in my next buzz Cyndi wilkins. Thank you for engaging my interest to write this post.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#45
That is excatly the topic of my next buzz as outlined by the exchange of comments between David Navarro L\u00f3pez

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

1 year ago #45

#43
#44 I love the creative turn this post has taken...A perfect segway into your post Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee? 'The Art of Forgiveness'....How to take the painful events of our past and turn them into our greatest gifts for a healthier future;-)

John Rylance

John Rylance

1 year ago #44

#44
While liking the concept I often wonder if saying excuse me taking revenge I'm only human what do you expect, while forgiveness is divine is saying I'm more than human because I forgive you. Remember when someone says that was divine, they mean it was wicked, self indulgent. 

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#43
The moment I finished writing my previous comment I started looking into creative forgiveness. Why? because it is divine.

David Navarro LΓ³pez

David Navarro LΓ³pez

1 year ago #42

#42
revenge is human. Forgiveness is divine, they say

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#41
My dear and close friend David Navarro L\u00f3pez- it always means a lot to read a comment by you. This one is no exception. There are creative revenges, but I don't say they are approved by me. More, our human nature is biased to the negative. You know, David, you inspire me with an idea that is to write a buzz on "creative forgiveness". I shall give it a thought and I hope to find some examples and stories to clarify this thought. As for creative revenges I am sure their are so many examples. Yes, let us light a kindle of hope. Yes, revenge is chaotic; forgiveness is orderly. The Law of Entropy says it is easy and sometimes spontaneous to go from order to chaos; unfortunately the opposite is untrue. On another front I hope your life plans are going smooth. You deserve to have the greatest times my friend.

David Navarro LΓ³pez

David Navarro LΓ³pez

1 year ago #40

You always surprise me, Dearest Ali. By the title of the post, I expected anything but having "creative revenge" as a protagonist of it. To me, revenge is a useless negative action, even for the one who makes it. The cheated wife remains cheated. Punishment to the sinners does not repair anything. On the contrary, if the mentioned maquiavelic revenge goes wrong, the wife would be in a bad place, whilst being the victim, so more pain for her would be added. I had myself situations on which I was legitimate to take revenge, but it was never an option to me. If someone has done a filthy thing to me, it doesn't mean I will feel better if I taint my hands doing a filthy thing in return, even If I had the "right" to do it. And, it puts me (and the situation) into a no return point Time has proven to be the best avenger. Concerning the examples of your post, what if the wife would like to finally forgive the husband? Being the victim, she places herself in a situation on which she can not show forgiveness with full right anymore, as she acted violently in return.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#37
I don't know if @Harvey Lloyd even sleeps

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#36
Fay Vietmeier Hi Fay, You wrote "Revenge ... Bitterness ... unforgiveness: all are thieves that rob life and harden the heart". This is the chaos we live in. Revenge instead of tolerance, Bitterness because we don't forgive. Unforgiveness- well, the dictionary doesn't list this word. So, i say we punish each other instead of forgiving each other. The Mouth Pond- I shall publish soon.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#35
You trap us in your "circles of creative imagination" Fay Vietmeier and now you say it is "...our sin always finds us out...". I say our sin is not finding you much earlier than we did. Your rich man-poor man story reminds me of two friend who were very poor. They decided one day to move abroad: they did and the two close friends migrated to foreign lands. Few years later one of them returned home with fortune. He was surrounded by many friends (or fake ones) because wealth attracts. The other man wasn't fortunate and returned home long after the first one. The poor gut noticed people circling a gentleman. He was curious to find out who he was. To his surprise he was his old friend. He rushed to him and hugged him. The rich friend asked him (but who are you). The poor friend replied in poetry (and the translation from Arabic will take the fragrance away): Do you recall our desperate days when you used to say "isn't their death I could buy"? The rich friend identified him immediately and took care of him. So, please my "rich in heart" friend take care of us.

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

1 year ago #36

I wonder dear Harvey Lloyd...Are you still sleeping with one eye open? Lol!

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #35

@AliAnani (part 2) 2 Samuel 12 ...continues: This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: β€˜I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. I gave your master’s house to you, and your master’s wives into your arms. I gave you all Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. Why did you despise the word of the Lord by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. (consequence) Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.’ ... the child of David & Bathsheba died ... there's more to the story in 2 Samuel 12 Revenge ... Bitterness ... unforgiveness: all are thieves that rob life and harden the heart Harvey Lloyd ... your words reveal your wisdom ;~) I will look for that post @AliAnani "The Ponds in our Mouths" it reminds me of my "WORDS" post "What do your words say about you" https://www.bebee.com/producer/@fay-vietmeier-pennsylvania/what-do-your-words-say-about-you Our spiritual condition as reflected in our words is shouting to us ... but very few are listening

Fay Vietmeier

Fay Vietmeier

1 year ago #34

@AliAnani Ali~ Your mind never rests ;~) interesting comments by all Harvey Lloyd CityVP 🐝 Manjit ...our sin always finds us out... ... we make "CHOICES" but we rarely govern the CONSEQUENCES ... The 1st thing that came to my mind is the story of David & Bathsheba: as recorded in 2 Samuel: 12 The Lord sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, β€œThere were two men in a certain town, one rich and the other poor. The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him. β€œNow a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him.” David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, β€œAs surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this must die! 6 He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity.” Then Nathan said to David, β€œYou are the man!

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#32
Your comment Roberto De la Cruz Utria send whirls in my mind. In particular and to the point your writing "We are always prone to fall into a point of no return". This is an idea for a TV episode. I am thinking of companies and their climates. Are they different from natural climate? They aren't. Both have many tipping points that are followed by tipping points. If not, then how come that most of the companies listed in the Top 599 disappeared not only from the list, as for some of they them disappeared and are no more in the market. Also, what applies to leaders applies to us as individuals. We lead our lives and we repeat the same mistakes leaders of companies commit. It is not enough to lead- as leaders could drive organizations and selves to success or to extinction. Sadly, both are cols leaders. So much to ponder on your comment.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#31
Hi Jerry, this is on the spot quote "French saying that best reflects the reality of revenge", This is a subtle quote. And as things change this quote remains as is solid and true.

Jerry Fletcher

Jerry Fletcher

1 year ago #31

Dr. Ali, Now I'm sure it was Halloween last night. This little walk down Stephen King's lane was not what I expected. But, in truth it was a simple observation of the times in which we live. Although technology plays a role in the conversation here, there is a French saying that best reflects the reality of revenge: "The more things change, the more they stay the same. And so it goes.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#29
yes, I am in accordance with your comment.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

1 year ago #29

#28
We are all technically bacteria based but we value ourselves as humanity without actually living up to the word and we should value ourselves by the measure of humility, at least bacteria are already designed that way, to be humble until our own habits inject bad bacteria into our living system, to interfere or even destroy the good bacteria that is a part of our being that keeps us healthy and alive.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#27
Great link and a great comment. SO much wisdom in your quote "we look down on bad breath but not on voice terror".Just an idea struck my mind- we talk about information bias. Is it possible that we are now bacteria-biased? This thought just emerged while reading your comment and I don't know if it makes any sense. Just reviewing the New York Times article I am interested more in this topic and I am going to explore it.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

1 year ago #27

#26
The sad part is that beyond knowing our society is totally out of whack, that our society does not know what the whacking is. If SMART and DUMB were metaphors for the spread of bacteria, how did we create technologies that allow us access to so much information and basically remain dumber than were in pre-internet times? At least the bacteria that helps us does not function on the psychology of embarrassment. The bad breath that is caused by bacteria is nothing compared to the terrible voices that flood our social systems, we look down on bad breath but not on voice terror. Our media informs us about terrorists while it terrorizes us and we terrorize each other. We have already determined the relationship between our human being and our bacteria being https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/14/we-are-our-bacteria/ but we are far removed from understanding the wisdom of it, social media is one thing, but so more apt to call the emerging and downward spiral into infantile dialogue a case of social bad breath.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#25
Great comment and I realize that it is useful bacteria that help us do many things in life. However; i see the trend now is that we develop our life style to encourage the growth of harmful bacteria, Yes, we all need bacteria, bur for what use and purpose.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

1 year ago #25

#24
Interesting that the word Pond Scum means the green-blue algae on ponds, but also has become a slang term for despicable people. We should note that bacteria is also our friend, a friend without whom we as human beings would not exist. Even ponds need good bacteria : https://www.aquascapeinc.com/product-category/water-treatments/beneficial-bacteria-for-ponds

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#23
In a post that I published on LI and titled "The Ponds in our Mouths". In this post I wrote that our mouths are in fact a pond of bacteria. Your comment reinforces this idea and that the world's mouth is like a vicious bacteria pond. This is globalization. I thank you CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit and I decided to rewrite the post and publish it on beBee soon.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

1 year ago #23

Unfortunately expectations of privacy have completely eroded in a society where sensationalism, novelty and instant gratification have become the norm rather than the exception. George Orwell thought that Big Brother was the hand of government shadowing us all, but it turns that Big Brother is every single human being who has a total disregard for matters of privacy. Future generations will not tolerate what our society has set as social norms. It is not just that we have become a global village, we have surpassed the global and become a civilization of village idiots.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#21
I meant point of no return for the betraying friend. She had two choices both of which were bitter. Either she denies the the theft or face the exposure of her messages to the world. The wife didn't harm her husband, bit who knows what happened behind the closed doors.

John Rylance

John Rylance

1 year ago #21

Did the wife plan something equally fiendish for her errant husband? After all as they say it takes two to tango. Perhaps in her eyes he hadn't reached his point of no return in relationship stakes.

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

1 year ago #20

#19
Hell hath no fury like that of a woman scorned! Oh yeah, and happy Halloween Harvey;-)

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #19

#18
Sharp knives, betrayed women, with a plan that includes "unwavering resolve". These are the things of nightmares:) I have enjoyed the light hearted banter.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#16
This is a testing time Harvey for the challenge isn't to have a nightmare.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

I invite Fay Vietmeier to engage us with her eye-opening comments.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #16

#14
You realise you are announcing your belief in the freudian concepts. OK i give up, i will have nightmares now.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#14
Indeed it does. Normally, women boil in anger in such situations and their decisions become chaotic and disruptive even to self. It is a hard situation to deal with Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

1 year ago #14

#12
The dichotomy of such situations as described here in Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee;-)

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#11
This s agility. I am rubbing my head how to respond.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #12

#11
I fear you may watch the HSN channel and wait for the Gensui knives to roll up! LOL You make me want to sleep with one eye open.

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

1 year ago #11

#8
Ha! Not a chance...especially with a sneak attack! Lorena's rule...Wait until it's sleeping;-)

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

'sleeping" thoughts. You remind me of dormant seeds and their abrupt growth. Maybe such thoughts are like weeds. You stretch my mind again Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #9

#6
What i find so amazing is the ease which creativity flows within revenge. But ask how you follow the golden rule in such cases and its like the brain becomes a vacuum of space time with no stars. I blame it on the teenage years. That time where the frontal lobes are watching the rest of the brain form itself. Revenge and other reactions without executive functions are securely planted then we get reasoning. But those teenage thoughts lay dormant until the next time we need them.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#6
Be careful Cyndi wilkins should the aggressor have a sharper knife in the pocket!!!

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#5
Familiarity killed the cat, but now I am afraid it is reflecting on us.

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

1 year ago #6

Ah yes...Revenge is cathartic isn't it? However, I don't think I would have been able to contain myself on this one...I'm more the 'Lorena Bobbitt' type;-) Who needs technology when you have a sharp knife in the drawer? Lol! Something tells me I might have been the person that killed 'Custer'...Nothin' like an arrow through the penis to make your point... aye Robert Cormack?

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #5

#4
Familiarity breeds contempt. I am bending the definition of the phrase a bit, but it applies. When we become familiar with a certain way of living that includes escalating revenge and defensive tactics, contempt builds. We begin to see everyone as friend or foe. Before you know it folks with red shoes on are all foes. Those with blue shoes must be friends. Allowing folks to present themselves through fellowship then deciding is gone. This is foxhole that depression, anxiety and many other emotional chaos cycles grow.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#3
Very-well stated comment Harvey Lloyd. One aim of publishing the post is beautifully conveyed in your comment "Aggressive for ourselves and defensive towards others", The trouble is that with technology opening doors to increase this paradigm is continuing and it is causing chaos. Revenge is becoming easy and on many fronts. Your comment with that of Cyndi wilkins on LinkedIn on this buzz shall be the topic of a forthcoming post. Thank you both for the inspiration.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

1 year ago #3

I liked your title as it included the word "Choice" and not point. Very descriptive. Revenge has its effect on both parties. The one seeking vengeance can never shake the lows they went to achieve the revenge. They now also have a different view of how low someone else might treat them when they are in error of something. The dynamic of revenge is best stated as you should dig two graves. Humanity is capable of much malevolence and the place it starts is small revenge efforts that ripple through communities. Each effort must top the next. Until we find ourselves where are today. Aggressive for ourselves and defensive towards others. A very tough paradigm to maintain.

Ali 🐝 Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#1
What amazes me is that new technologies have opened the door for creative ideas that are SMART and almost free of charge for the nimble minds. I think this phenomenon has not been addressed in depth. Thank you dear Debasish Majumder for commenting, liking and sharing the post. O call you from now "The wonderful Poet".

Debasish Majumder

Debasish Majumder

1 year ago #1

creativity in vengeance! perhaps the terrorist outfits resort to such innovative incendiaries to take revenge against the existing system which might have engendered a new form of warfare! however, unique buzz indeed sir Ali \ud83d\udc1d Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee! enjoyed read and shared. thank you for the buzz sir.

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