Innocent Observations

Innocent Observations

I was looking at images of spiral plants and trees. Suddenly, an observation sparked in front of my eyes. Upon comparing the images of a cauliflower and a spiral tree I observed a difference. The cauliflower grows within visible boundary, whereas the tree has no well-defined boundary. Is the restriction of space that motivates Roman Cauliflower to grow repeatedly in spiral packings?

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Trees may grow straight up, spiral to the right or left or alternate between these options? On what basis the spiral tree takes its choice? Is it a forced choice, or a voluntarily one? Cauliflower has choices as well on how to grow, but to a lesser extent than a spiral tree. Is there a hidden purpose for doing this?

I played around with some possible pickings of cauliflower florets. I used this source to try different simulations on how cauliflower packs itself. I changed the turn between growing cells from 0.614 to 0.619. You may notice that these numbers are slight variation from 0.618 (Fibonacci ratio). The results are shown below.

3ed31a66.jpgSmall variations in the rotation steps lead to hugely varying packing patterns. It is only the Golden Ratio of 0.618 that gives a perfectly packed seeds. You can see that lots of empty spaces are there if slight deviations from the Golden Ratio are allowed. What makes cauliflower observe the simple rule of sticking to 0.618? Is it the attention to the interest of the whole? The answer is yes, for this is a repeated arrangement across time and space. This leads me to the comment that Harvey Lloyd wrote on my previous buzz ".

..conclude that with or without purpose we will enter the realm of chaos. With purpose we will find what we are looking for, without purpose we will only find helplessness and remain within the chaos".ย 
Harvey Lloydย 

The cauliflower found their orderly purpose resulting in an orderly packing. How delicate it is then to "turn" purpose slightly and end up in chaos. Trees are different however as they experience different growing conditions. spiral trees are rare in deep forests and valleys, and are most common on windy ridges. Why then trees change their growth pattern. Spiral growth weakens the overall strength of the tree; however the trees can easier dump off snow this way. Another reason is the transportation of food from the roots to tree branches is easier in a spiral form. The trees sacrifice strength for a purpose. This purpose changes with change in the location of a spiral tree. I find these findings reinforcing the comment written by Ian Weinberg

ย "Not only is purpose fed from this engagement but it is often borne out of this engagement. Purpose without the courage to engage risks the development of purposelessness. Conversely, aimless engagement also risks the development of purposelessness. And so I would contend that there should be a flexible free-flow of purpose and engagement with 'risky' chaos, so that purpose remains robust".ย 
Ian Weinberg

The spiral tree undergoes risk by losing its strength to allow for the healthy growth of the tree and its survival.

No cauliflower looks the same as other cauliflowers. No spiral tree is an exact copy of another spiral tree. They keep some authenticity, but not on the expense of purposefully serving the overall interests of the tree. Does authenticity have a scale? I mean do we need to think of establishing An Authenticity Scale? Authenticity and the interest may not be in conformity. In these cases the cauliflower and spiral trees tell us that we can stay authentic to a degree so that the general interest of the community may come first.


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Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

I am just about finishing writing a buzz on purpose because these discussion influenced me to have a new look at this issue. Your comment is timely Todd Jones. The title of my new buzz is "Following simple Rules of life". In it I say that purpose is not by design as it is an emerging property of following simple rules. I would love to read your comment on this. I plan to publish in less than an hour. Thank you

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #21

#23
Flattered Cyndi wilkins, for bringing this to my attention and for your added insight. Cyndi, for me, what yous say, "Simply because you can," is such a game changer and perfectly connected with the concept of intent. Who am I to tell someone what to do? All I ask is that we are thoughtful (conscious thought) and not engage reactively or impulsively. Our ability "to do" has to be within a framework of (as Dr. Ali suggests in his comment) responsibility.

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#23
Cyndi wilkins o it. Some acts harm the prey and are of no benefit to the predator. Your example of stomping on an ant is an example. Other acts harm both parties. So, the degree of purposelessness aren't of the same scale. Of course, worse is doing an act that harms both parties. We pollute nature and harm the trees and waters, cros, animals, us and all living bodies. What kind of void actions these are!

Cyndi wilkins

Cyndi wilkins

4 years ago #19

#1
"Despite all the innate design and programming, humans seem to act within an intent. This is one of the dynamic factors that influence the relationship between us and the world we live in." I concur wholeheartedly with this statement Sara Jacobovici...As the landscape of our lives, including our interactions with other forms of life, is in fact a result of our 'focused' intent...So it would seem wise for us all to engage with ALL of nature...plant and animal life alike...with profound reverence and an attitude of equality among all forms of life...Our survival as a species depends on it..So never stomp on an ant...Simply because you can;-)

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#21
Your comment is sheer beauty and is an eye-opener. I love every line of it CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit. In particular "We invest more time in being more conscious of purpose than we do being conscious of our co-existence with nature" . This line opens our minds to the need to be in harmony with nature. Failing to do so will run us into purposelessness whether we are aware of it or not. Nature is a great mentor and to defy it is just wrong.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #17

#12
Let us imagine that there is such a thing as a "next life". In this next life my life force comes back as a plant. Do I really want to be born with my head stuck in the ground and my genitals flopping outside to the wind? The natural purpose of a plant is devoid of being conscious that it was born in a fixed space and upside down and even if a plant was conscious of this predicament it has no need for Prozac. The relationship between that plant and nature however is much bigger than the relationship human beings have demonstrated by being conscious of purpose. How has being conscious of purpose changed the relationship between people and the planet? We invest more time in being more conscious of purpose than we do being conscious of our co-existence with nature. When our purpose ends up conflicting with nature we call it politics. Plants do engage in a fight for survival but in the context of nature. Plants exhibit an elegant purposelessness in being stuck upside down in the ground with their genitals exposed to bees - so it is I think that the yin-yang between purpose and purposelessness has its elegance. When the word "success" becomes a failure of imagination, we have at that point failed as conscious creatures - for we are then less conscious of nature than a life form that has a planted existence and flops and flows through wind, sun and rain.

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#18
Your examples and explanations Tausif Mundrawala are illuminating and to the point. I always enjoy your comments because they have depth in them. Bravo

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#16
Yes, I concur with your point about the inherent bias Ian Weinberg. Whether this was intended or not I am not quite sure. May be the same applies to repelling materials or hydrophobic ones too. So, understanding this bias (or its opposite) and the environment may help us have authentic purposes accordingly. A lot to think about.

Ian Weinberg

Ian Weinberg

4 years ago #14

Thanks for the mention Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee I would suggest that there is an inherent bias present in all matter and energy. We see this in the unchanging properties of the basic elements which determine their interactions with each other and thus the formation of more complex physicality. But we also know that influences exist in an energy dimension which exercises a timeless-spaceless influence upon matter and energy (see Sheldrake's morphogenetic fields and experimental proof). It follows then that authentic purpose reflects an accurate reading of the inherent bias of the environmental substrate (chaos) and is destined for success in time and space. By definition, the accurate reading of self and of the extended environment leads to authentic purpose (&leadership) and heightened chances of collective success.

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#14
Time is the unknown is a lovely idea even though they could follow a Fibonacci-timeline. Can we separate time from space? In complex systems- we keep the entity of space and time as a unit. SO, the third dimension could be spacetime as well. I am just thinking loud. Yes, I concur with your last paragraph. It is very unlikely that we would start with the perfect ratio (0.618). Equally important is that we go in small steps for if we proceed with big ones we could easily over jump the identical ratio. It is a learning process through trial and error. What brings us closer to the desired outcome is your "Each force acting in unison now gives us the best opportunity for our start to match the desired finish. Even with this chaos offers us challenges that are unforeseen. However it is easier to meet the challenge as our team becomes a resource and sees the opposing force at the same time". We think we know, but as we know more we find how much more we need to know.

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

4 years ago #12

#10
If i control the beginning or creation of purpose and i know the desired outcome .618. The only other element that is an unknown is time. Inside the human dynamic these three points are our points of interest, specifically within change management. Using time as the unknown becomes the leadership responsibility. Change management is the end/begin of the chaos pattern. Within change management our purpose must be known and generalized before we release the purpose into the chaos. This is not a perfection paradigm, but rather a gathering of all the known forces within your charge and applying them at the same rate/force. Each force acting in unison now gives us the best opportunity for our start to match the desired finish. Even with this chaos offers us challenges that are unforeseen. However it is easier to meet the challenge as our team becomes a resource and sees the opposing force at the same time. I don't foresee any start and projected finish as perfect. But we can start with our best effort in knowing the begin/end. I believe that our initial start is sometimes found to be inefficient. Within the time envelope we continue to learn about the projected finish and alter course. With this i would submit that we start with your .614 and through experience move towards .618 as the purpose develops.

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#11
Thank you dear @debasish for your comment and sharing of this buzz. The questions yu raise are similar to mine. I am hoping to better my understanding in the hope of finding some clues to answering these questions. I believe the discussions already warming up shall guide us. I know my purpose- to improve my understanding of this topic. It is not only for my benefit; more it is for the benefit of us all.

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#9
My first reaction to your wonderful comment CityVP \ud83d\udc1d Manjit is pausing at your writing "Human design is a very different thing to the golden ration forming naturally". Human bodies are products of the golden ratio. Why our thinking and actions aren't is an issue. We tend to control, and this way limit creativity and the possible emerging of new understandings, discoveries...I find your other line equally intriguing "That is human beings engaged in the design as a form of control and not nature". Therefore, I am getting more curious to read again from your comment "It is the system and environment that we live in that requires from us a sense of purpose, but purposelessness is a form of freedom and what emerges between purpose and purposelessness may be closer to the very order that comes with nature". The question for me now is if plants have a naturally-born purpose and humans don't. A lot to think about.

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#8
Harvey Lloyd mentioned in her comment? Yu also wrote "Given our leadership positions we start or create a beginning. Our purpose is efficient direction/effort towards a given goal. Once we release the purpose into the system, as you released the number, choice, forces begin to act on the purpose". The question that comes to my mind- do we envisage the outcome? Like cauliflower arranges in a spiral was it aware of the outcome? Can humans be sure of the outcome in a complex world? Or, is it the trial and error that finds the optimal emerging outcome? In my humble opinion, we need to try hoping for the optimal "packing". So much to ponder on my friend.

CityVP Manjit

CityVP Manjit

4 years ago #8

Rationality, freedom and authenticity are not natural characteristics of human beings, when the reality of people tends to be more towards irrationality, control and branded persona. The golden ratio itself is called an irrational number and it numbers to infinity. Human design is a very different thing to the golden ration forming naturally. Purpose is a forced design therefore not natural. We first define a purpose and then move towards that design. That is human beings engaged in the design as a form of control and not nature. The moment we put our hands on something to shape it, we shape the resulting conception and the resulting conception then shapes us. What comes free with nature is no longer a freedom within us once we seek to shape to our conception or control or our comfort with patterns. We can draw awareness of our thinking from observing the nature of emergence. It is the system and environment that we live in that requires from us a sense of purpose, but purposelessness is a form of freedom and what emerges between purpose and purposelessness may be closer to the very order that comes with nature. The order that comes with human decision is far removed from that which Stuart Kauffman cited as "order is free". https://www.edge.org/conversation/stuart_a_kauffman-chapter-20-order-for-free

Harvey Lloyd

Harvey Lloyd

4 years ago #7

Your four designs of spirals are intriguing. With only slightly varied starting points the outcomes are quite different. When i consider the starting point i also have to look at the creator of the start. You choose the numbers to begin with. Although research of design, it also brings into focus our purpose requires a creator. Us. Like your designs, we see an outcome. A mental picture if you will. Do we consider the forces of the community that act on this purpose? What if i am .614 and act on your design of .618? Does this change your purpose or offer an alternative to your creation? Given our leadership positions we start or create a beginning. Our purpose is efficient direction/effort towards a given goal. Once we release the purpose into the system, as you released the number, choice, forces begin to act on the purpose. This is where it gets interesting. The software you used has known forces operating based on the creation of the number. In real life though the forces are unknown and untested as we act on our purpose. All chaos has a starting point when we look at the creation of the number we choose to start with. Success would appear to have two components. A good starting point, and more importantly a clear understanding and strong character in navigating the forces that act on the creation after the start. I would further submit that how we see the forces on our creation would also impact our outcome. Should we see the forces as nurtured by others and act against the human then we will diverge from our purpose. Should we see the forces as natural then we would be able to retain our focus on purpose and adapt. What would happen to your model of design if the start point was interrupted during the design by a small change. Starting with .618 and then apply a force within that design of .614?

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

I assure you you rate high on the authenticity scale Savvy Raj. I appreciate your comment.

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#4
Thank you Sara Jacobovici and I truly look forward to reading your buzz.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #4

#3
I always take your suggestions seriously Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee. I hope to write on this as soon as possible. Thank you for your ongoing support and encouragement.

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

#1
Sara Jacobovici- your comment is subtle and crosses many boundaries. It has many deep layers of thinking. I wholeheartedly wish if you would write a buzz on the intent issue so that you may cover more ground on this hugely important comment. Your selection of the word intent has depth. You didn't write purpose, for example. I truly hope you expand on this idea.

Ali ๐Ÿ Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee

Thanks Javier \ud83d\udc1d beBee as well.

Sara Jacobovici

Sara Jacobovici

4 years ago #1

One thing is for sure Ali Anani, Brand Ambassador @beBee, your mind and thinking have no restrictions or boundaries. Your discussion in this buzz leads me to the word "intent". I think this is where humans cross the boundary between other species and ourselves. Despite all the innate design and programming, humans seem to act within an intent. This is one of the dynamic factors that influence the relationship between us and the world we live in.

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